OK, had a little more time to answer OT properly.....
Quote: So, have you asked yourself if you want SO to stay over on Saturday? What do you hope to get out of it? What are the possible positive and negative consequences for you? How do you feel about SO supposedly deciding that he would spend the night? (I say supposedly because it is equally your decision.) I sense that you are feeling used. Will this be something that will make you feel used? If so, why would you choose it?
Yes, I did want him to stay here Saturday night....because Easter is the next day and the kids get up early. I can detach enough to not equate him staying here to anything that has to do with "US". All it means is he's working nearby that night and if he were to drive one hour to his apartment, he would sleep late Sunday morning and miss everything with the kids. So, him staying here is the best choice. I can put everything between "US" aside to make things good for the kids. I had been thinking about asking him - but didn't want to. "I" did not want to be the one to suggest it. I want him to make his own choices as far as the kids go...even if I don't seem like it.
It doesn't make me feel used - quite the opposite. Had he chosen to go to his apartment, I would have been PO'd. The only thing I hope to get out of it is sleeping in late Sunday morning!! LOL Kidding aside, we always make the most out of the holidays...he has certain things he does with the kids...he's in charge of the egg hunt, stuff like that. Like I said, I don't think of this as anything other than to make it easier for the holiday with the kids. If he didn't come here, I would be left with the kids, by myself, and that bothers me.
Quote: Under what circumstances is it OK with you for SO to stay over? Do you need to know that he wants to reconcile? Are you open to having no expectations and just seeing what happens?
Well, this is the 1st time that him "staying over" has come up. Since he's moved out, I have not asked or hinted or anything. It's one of the few rules (boundaries?) I have (that I have actually stuck to). There's been a couple of times where it's gotten late...(late for him re: his AM schedule), and it sort of felt like he wanted to stay, but - like I said - I will not be the one to do the asking. If he wants to stay, he'll ask. I think. Who the hell knows these days.
Quote: BTW, I think in any case whatever you choose to do, it may help you to get a bit more emotional distance. You aren't really giving him any space to miss you or to pursue you. This is also the reason you don't know if you are in denial or not. You are too afraid of not being the always-opened-armed-welcome-back-whenever-you-decide-you-want-me NM (because, gasp, he might leave -- of course, he already has left...), to give him space to show you that he really wants you back and will make an effort to get you back.
I've been resorting to Tylenol PM lately....which is a big deal for me since I rarely take medicine of any kind. Tea seems to have the opposite effect on me - it jacks me way up. Coffee....I can drink pots of it and feel nothing. Tea - even decaffeinated, seems to pump me up. I don't know why.
GH... Thanks. Reading everyone's posts made me cry again!!! Dammit - lol. Up, down, up, down. I need some frickin' pamprin!!!
I guess what has me so bothered is that if OW dumped him...is he still pining for her?? That's in the back of my mind. Sometimes I'm so busy, so confsued - I miss signs... the baby steps. Add his busy schedule, the fact that we never spend time alone - I don't know. I feel like *I* want to be courted & dated.....THAT is most definitely an unrealistic expectation right now...lol...and I need to banish that thought. And then I wonder is THAT what he wants from ME? (Thinking back to his comment last week about being made to feel special.) He LOVES being adored. Yet, is it time to pursue? Or stay backed off & give him more space like OT says?
Ah yes...I'm forgetting the definition of LIMBO! !
Quote: I feel like *I* want to be courted & dated.....THAT is most definitely an unrealistic expectation right now
Yes, and yes.
I feel the same way. I feel like she put me through this and now since it's "over" in a way, she needs to go after me. What OT says really rings true here though. BOTH you and I have not REALLY backed off from them enough to give them a chance to pursue us. I know in my case, I can honestly admit that I am afraid my W would NOT do it. She never has, so what makes me think she will now? Of course, my sitch, and hopefully yours, is such that I may not HAVE to pull all the way back but I would hate the reason why I did not to be fear of her rejecting me by a lack of pursuit. I hope that's not the ONLY why we are hesitant to do it.
Think of an old best friend passing through your city -- you adore seeing them, just think they are fabulous, are really interested in what they are saying -- then, poof they are gone and you are perfectly happy to go on with your own life...
All this stuff about OP going and them not being gaga again over you... Well, I guess you were secretly buying into the idea that their lack of interest in you was about OP. Guess what. Michelle is right. It is NOT about OP, so OP leaving won't make them gaga over you.
NM, what is with this cover story for why you want SO to stay over? Sure, I guess it is more convenient for both of you, but convenience isn't really a good reason for having any man in your bed. Get honest with yourself here. YOU WANT IT TO BE about being with YOU. It probably is... Convenience isn't a good enough reason for SO to stay over with you either. It is probably a bigger move for him than it is for you even... Anyway, try to get real about this, at least with yourself.
I suspect that your fear is that it is just convenience on his part. Again, this is highly doubtful. But, if you need to know, you need to know. "H, I want you to know that I'd really love you spending Saturday night here as my P and as our kids dad. I love that feeling and I miss it. But, I'm really scared that in your head it is just a matter of what is convenient in terms of you playing easter bunny. I guess I don't need any guarantees or promises, neither of us can now where this is going. But I do need to know that your staying here would be more about us than just an easy place to crash. That wouldn't be good for me and I need to look out for myself here."
If it really is about convenience *for either of you*, I suggest the couch or a hotel room. Priceline and hotwire always have good deals.
I feel like *I* want to be courted & dated.....THAT is most definitely an unrealistic expectation right now
Um, why? Why don't you feel you deserve that? Why isn't it perfectly reasonable to wait for someone that has left you to show you that they are serious about wanting you back and willing to work for it???
It is reasonable. You are afraid they don't care enough to try.
"Hey SO, if you really want me, convince me. Romance me to show me you are serious, be open and honest with me to help me trust you. Treat me well and I'll adore you for it, along with all your other wonderful qualities, like being hot, sexy, smart..."
What you don't want to do is set up secret love and loyalty tests which SO is bound to fail because he is in the dark. BTW, he probably feels unworthy of being someone who is allowed to treat you as a romantic partner.
OT, would your last post apply to me as well? You keep saying that I am the one who needs to romance my W, not the other way around but I feel the same as NM, that I want/deserve to be romanced and shown I am desirable. Why haven't you said it's up to my W to do those things. In my case it's always that my W is either not ready or sitting there waiting with blazing panties for me to "do the right thing" all the time. Why can't SHE be the one to show ME affection and desire FIRST? Is this a man/woman thing or is your feeling about my sitch different (or maybe not) because of the specific facts?
Sorry for the hijack but you know I am having a hard time with this and I think these last couple posts between you and NM have allowed me to realize that THIS idea of entitlement to pursuit is one of the largest stumbling blocks I face.
I too felt this was an unreal expectation but then you said to NM that it was not. I don't think it's unreal to feel like I am desirable, because I am, it's just unreal to expect HER to act in a way that validates that feeling. Maybe SO and my W ARE feeling somehow "unworthy" of being who WE want them to be. Then, at that point, is the burden back on us to convince them that it's ok to be?
This is all so confusing at times, and at others, I think I have a handle on it. Luckily for me, it's the times when I am away from my W with lots of time to think, that I seem NOT to have a handle on it, lol.
Yes, I think you should expect W to work to win you. I think you should expect W to work to help you get past A and do whatever it takes to help you. I think I've said such things before.
NM doesn't seem to have physical intimacy issues. You do. Just like her SO needs to know he can feel admired and valued by NM, your W needs to know that she can feel passion from you and sexual freedom with you.
Both of these things are things that you and NM can work on as individuals. Just because they are things that will help the R doesn't mean that you shouldn't respect yourself enough to expect a P who shows you clearly that they are also invested in the R and in you.
Thanks oldie for the clarification. That makes sense to me. Yes, I do seem to have issues that NM doesn't have you are correct with that assessment. Thanks.
The weekend was a quiet one...SO did come here Saturday night after his work. We ended up getting into a spat - I'm still not even sure about what. And yes, he did end up sleeping in the same bed as me. I would not, however, do anything. Overall, it was a quiet weekend...one thing that came out in our spat is that he says "I never talk to him and I need to open up with him more"....so, I'm just as confused as ever. He's asking me to be more open with him, yet, is it DB practice? Or how do I combine the two? Or is that a logical 180? I'm just a horrible conversationalist.
Anyway...I'm trying to make myself busy. Today I had a doctor appt, so when SO got here, I left. He had work to do in the garage when I got back, so I didn't see much of him. We did tease a bit, but in the end I declined.
Tomorrow I have to drive 4 hours to drop something off to my nephew - ironically something SO promised he could use and now I have to deliver. Actually I was supposed to bring it when I was up last weekend and forgot it. I don't mind though - it gets me out of the house. Wednesday, SO will be here again. I have appt's re: jobs and stopping to drop my resume off at some others, so I plan on being out most of the time he's here. This weekend, I'm trying to make plans to get out one night.
So, that's where I'm at. I do want to rely to some of what you said, OT, but it will have to be tomorrow.
You're a terrible conversationalist? Hm...well I have an assignment for you. Listen to his radio show for 1 hour a day. During which, write down 3 things, questions, or something you thought was funny.
Next time you are together ask him, or tell him.
It's still DB, you don't have to pursuit or call him,just when he's there and he's talking, then you do this.
