Quote: Lol, poor powerless NM. I'm not *even* going to say anything.
LOL...NO, I don't see myself as "powerless", quite the opposite, if you can believe it. More it's that I feel "limited"...that's the better term. I was just whining - I'm getting PO'd about my difficulties in finding a job.
Quote: I think YOU think it is because if you make plans for this weekend you think HE will think it is being done on purpose to screw him out of time with the kids/family, right? Well, if that's the only reason you're doing it, then don't. If there is a legitimate reason, the best of which would be that YOU want to, then go ahead and make the plans.
Yes - GH, you're right on the money here. I think HE will think I'm being mean & purposely omitting him from time with his kids on the holiday.
My version is we've got Friday, Saturday and Sunday that we could spend out of the house, the kids would see their cousins & aunts/uncles/grandparents for the weekend. HIS time here would be what - Sunday - at who knows what time (for I will NOT ask him to come stay here that Saturday night). I mean, I'm gonna be Easter Bunny, I doubt he'll be here in time to see them get their baskets or take pix or video or whatever...so why should we stay home for the whole weekend just for him to see the kids for a few hours? That's what I'm thinking - not to intentionally hurt him.
Another alternative would be to go up Friday & come back Saturday night. Or invite family here. I'll have to think on it some more.
I guess I just "know" how he's going to react. He'll try to make me feel bad that he's "WORKING" and providing for us and we won't even be here for him to come spend the day with. I'd bet my right foot he'll say something along those lines. But it's high time I STOP worrying about it, right? Right. I just never seem to come up with proper answers to those kinds of things he says. Then again, if he was so concerned, he could have said something about plans for the day by now. We both seem to dance around these kinds of things, I don't know why. Well, I know why I do it - I don't want to seem like I expect him to be here or pursue him or whatever.
Quote: guess I just "know" how he's going to react. He'll try to make me feel bad that he's "WORKING" and providing for us and we won't even be here for him to come spend the day with. I'd bet my right foot he'll say something along those lines. But it's high time I STOP worrying about it, right? Right. I just never seem to come up with proper answers to those kinds of things he says. Then again, if he was so concerned, he could have said something about plans for the day by now.
How about this, I'll play the OT role here for a minute. Why not just come out and say something direct like "SO, I know it's important to you to see the kids over this weekend but it's also important to me to do some other things. I would appreciate it if you could let me know by tomorrow what your schedule will be so I can try to make time for you to see the kids, otherwise I cannot commit to anything with you."
I understand that his schedule makes it hard for both of you but like you've said, you cannot feel guilty for continuing you/the kids life when he is working. If he feels so strongly about wanting to be there for those kinds of things then he can stop taking the extra gigs, change careers or get some other kind of work that is not on the weekends. That sounds harsh but the reality is that we all have choices we make and through this I have come to realize that one of the worst things we do is not owning those choices and living by them. We like to pretend that the choices are made for us (and I am not talking about religious ideas about God's plan or anything) and that we are somehow victims in life. I am NOT ignoring the financial well-being of your family but He COULD make the changes necessary to see the kids more, etc. WILL he? Who knows.
Trust me, I know how he feels so I don't say that lightly but I had to scale back my outside work last year, about a year too late apparently , because of the same things. Too much work, not enough family for me. Now I am making more money than ever, working fewer days and it would not have happened if I did not realize that I needed to change things around. So in that respect, I guess there is a plan after all...lol.
That's a good idea - I'll probably do/say something along those lines.
And I don't want you all to think I'm dwelling or fretting on this or anything, because I'm not - I just like to know what I'm doing! LOL I think I also had Easter in mind as a kind of cut-off point. Meaning, after that I was thinking about doing a full-scale retreat into the darkness. I find myself "waiting" sometimes for things from him and I need to stop that. I don't like to think of myself waiting around for him. Maybe that's why I'm so grumpy these days - I had thought I'd have been working already and, while being a stay at home mom is a job, I still feel like he knows I'm here, blah, blah, blah and I don't "feel" like I'm moving forward. I hope that makes sense.
Anyway - another rainy day here. I need to find something constructive to do inside! LOL
I just heard this song (out on my daily drive to nowhere, trying to be ever elusive!! LOL) and even though I'm not big on country music, I really liked this song. It's got an upbeat tempo and seems to fit....it's called If You're Going Through Hell sung by Rodney Atkins....
Well you know those times When you feel like there's a sign there on your back Say's I don't mind if ya kick me Seems like everybody has Things go from bad to worse You'd think they can't get worse than that And then they do
You still walk the straight and narrow And you don't know where you are Use the needle of your compass To sew up your broken heart Ask directions from a genie In a bottle of Jim Beam And she lies to You That's when you learn the truth
If you're going through hell Keep on going, Don't slow down If you're scared, don't show it You might get out Before the devil even knows you're there
Well I been deep down in that darkness I been down to my last match Felt a hundered different demons Breathing fire down my back And I knew that if I stumbled I'd fall right into the trap that they were laying, Yeah
But the good news Is there's angels everywhere out on the street Holding out a hand to pull you back upon your feet The one's that you been dragging for so long You're on your knees You might as well be free Guess what I'm saying If you're going through hell Keep on going, Don't slow down If you're scared, don't show it You might get out Before the devil even knows you're there
Yeah, If you're going through hell Keep on moving, Face that fire Walk right through it You might get out Before the devil even knows you're there
Not sure what it's worth, but what strikes me as funny (odd, not ha ha) about your sitch is that it's unclear to me (and maybe to you and SO also) about why he isn't living at home.
It almost seems like he acts like he isn't living at home for the sake of job convenience. In the military we call it being Geo(raphical) Bachelor. Like he is living closer to his job during the week and coming home on weekends.
Where as if he was moved out because he has chosen not to have a relationship with you things would be much different and in some ways easier.
It just seems like this is making things harder for you. Not being able to make plans and such. Does that make any sense?
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Quote: it's unclear to me (and maybe to you and SO also) about why he isn't living at home.
Short version - I asked him to move out. He was flagrantly with OW and I couldn't take it anymore. Definitely anti-DB, I know.
And you're very right - he talks about his apartment like it's a "hotel room" closer to his work.
It has, however, done wonders for ME. I've been so different since he's moved out. I've let him go on many levels. I've stopped wondering what he's doing, who he's doing it with. I've stopped questioning, yelling, crying. It's allowed me to move forward - not very far, lol, but definitely some positive steps forward for ME.
We still have a lot of contact, I know. And as OT pointed out, not sure how good it is for the situation. I have been stepping back from that, as well. Distancing myself from him as well as trying harder to detach.
Quote: Where as if he was moved out because he has chosen not to have a relationship with you things would be much different and in some ways easier.
Right again - while he "chose" to move out, I more or less pushed it. He would have continued to live here, doing as he was doing - going out with OW and coming home and sleeping with me in our bedroom; acting like a family here - being someone else out there. Two separate lives, with two different women.
The way he moved out, it kind of left lots of things dangling - which isn't necessarily bad, just confusing all-around.
It still remains to be seen whether it will be beneficial to our R; although I know it was beneficial to ME and my frame of mind.
I think need to add that one of my driving forces behind asking him to move out was that he said to me that his R with OW couldn't work out because of ME. Because we lived together.
I know the WA's say some crazy things, but I could NEVER get that out of my head. It drove me nuts. Also drove me to get him out of here so he could go experience life with OW and all that went with it.
Yeah, sometimes I'm a little backwards than everyone else.
I did the same thing - (prior to reading Divorce Remedy) I asked my H to move out when he revealed the affair to me. After reading Michele's books, I wasn't sure if I had done the right thing, but have come to the conclusion that it was the best thing for me. I believe I would not have been able to DB with him here. I was too emotional, and have had freedom to manage that in all of it's histrionic glory, without him around to see. As a consequence, I am now "the perfect wife" according to him, after 2 1/2 months and have not given him any additional reasons to leave. Of course, I still want my husband to come home and to recommit to our marriage. But the space will allow him to explore his relationship with the OW in the light of day rather than constantly feeling guilty every time he sees my face, and trying to protect my feelings by holding back or lying. I believe if he has full freedom to see this thing through with her, that their relationship will eventually fizzle out. Meanwhile, I still consider our home OUR home, and his rented room as a sleeping residence near his work, and he thinks that too and has said so. Even though he is very attached to keeping his room right now, because it allows him to continue his self-medicated state with the OW.
So I think DBing is the goal, and if we need some space so we can be effective at it, then that is ALOT better than being a whining, raging, emotional basket case in front of them.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
If SO is still persisting in the hotel room fiction to save face with the children and/or others, that is his thing and probably not a bad thing. If he does return, there will be fewer things to explain to people outside the R.
But, if he is still using the hotel room fiction in his own head to mask the truth of his own actions — abandoning you, the kids, and the old R — I'm not sure how helpful that is to him. Again, though, that is his thing.
I would resist any temptation to buy into the fiction yourself. You live in a house that *was* a shared residence for the couple that was NM and SO. That relationship is gone. A new R between NM and SO may come that is a romantic partnership. But, right now, there is no "us" between NM and SO that would make having a shared residence appropriate.
Imagine the coworker you don't want to be friends with buying a *pair* of season tickets to the theatre just in case you change your mind...
Anyway, I wonder about something you often say to me and now NM.
Quote: But, right now, there is no "us" between NM and SO that would make having a shared residence appropriate.
I agree to a certain point, but that is akin to saying that there is no "us" between SO and his OW or my W and her OM. Of course there is an "us" between then even though there are circumstances preventing them from marrying, etc, just like there is an "us" between my W and I, it's just not the kind of "us" that includes sex or other physical expressions of love. That does NOT mean there is no expression of love and that on some level our M/R is still viable albeit not desirable to me right now.
What I am getting at is that, and lets take Tim's case assuming you are somewhat familiar with it, some WAS just go, don't look back and only communicate when necessary EVEN if they continue to live at home. Tim's W was like that, and she lived in the same house but was ACTIVLY carrying on the A, throwing it in his face, constantly talking about the M being over, etc. In THIS case, and many others like it, I agree, there is no R or M to speak of and the LBS should feel no obligation to act as if there is. It is a mistake to keep going on pretending there is a marriage as a LBS when clearly, verbally, activly and in every other imaginable way the WAS is moving on as if there was not one. It is important to say that I don't think simply having an affair constitutes this "moving on".
In my case, and NM's case, our WAS are NOT flaunting their A's and I also believe, like my W, SO has not said he wants a "divorce" as it were. Again, NM correct me if I am wrong, but he, and my W have for the most part, maintained SOME kind of civility through all this. Now, I full realize we are talking about cheaters here, who by their nature are somewhat uncivil in their actions and I do NOT condone their actions nor do I minimize their affect on the M.
So, in my sitch, and possibly NM's, the idea of there being NO R is not entirely correct. Sure, there is currently no romantic relationship, but there is an R and even to some extent, a M so much as one without sex can be (and how many millions of THOSE are there). That leads to your last comment.
Quote: Imagine the coworker you don't want to be friends with buying a *pair* of season tickets to the theatre just in case you change your mind...
Exactly, my W and NM's SO are both already our friends and have not ruled out a romantic relationship so I think it's entirely appropriate to say "I have these tickets if you decide you want to go to some games with me. If not, I'll go with someone else..."
In short, I really embrace a comment you made to me a long time ago (lol); [paraphrase] Don't be more in the relationship than they are. I believe the reverse of that is true as well; Don't be more OUT of the relationship than they are either.
Of course, all this assumes that the A is not raging on and that our WAS ARE somewhat working back towards the R.
, because of the same things. Too much work, not enough family for me. Now I am making more money than ever, working fewer days and it would not have happened if I did not realize that I needed to change things around. So in that respect, I guess there is a plan after all...lol.
I think I also had Easter in mind as a kind of cut-off point. Meaning, after that I was thinking about doing a full-scale retreat into the darkness. I find myself "waiting" sometimes for things from him and I need to stop that. I don't like to think of myself waiting around for him. Maybe that's why I'm so grumpy these days - I had thought I'd have been working already and, while being a stay at home mom is a job, I still feel like he knows I'm here, blah, blah, blah and I don't "feel" like I'm moving forward. I hope that makes sense. 