As I mentioned in last post, H stopped by my office last night before leaving, showed me monsters internet personals ad. He didnt seem too bad then. when I got home 2.5 hours later he was a mess. pacing and tears running down his face and just beside himself. talking about how bad it was when we went out of town over night a month ago because of having been there with her, and we could never do that again. that hurt! I did tell him I was sorry to have hurt him with that, that my intent had been to plan something fun for us to do together, and he had suggested the location...he said he knew, he didn't realize how upsetting it would be. Said he still can't believe what a sucker and fool he was to fall for her lines, (I couldnt resist saying that what I'd read did seem very smooth and well rehearsed)I couldnt and still can't decide if he was upset over being played for such a fool, or if he's still torn up over losing her. H went to bed at 9, asked me to come up soon and hold him, so I did. he cried at night, asked me in the night to hold him...he was a mess.
This morning he seems somewhat better, he was talking more about the A, he seemed more matter-of-fact. He did say he couldnt go anywhere, he has to stay home where he "feels safe"....that really worries and concerns me. I did probe bit there, and he said "it will take time" and he's "not there yet"....it's like HOW DAMN LONG DOES THIS HAVE TO TAKE but I didnt say that. I did say that as long as she's having this effect, she's still in our marriage and lives to the detriment of our entire family.
H did say that he believes the reason "this" lasted so long is that they only spent little bits of time together...that it would have worn thin really fast if they had been together constantly. That she even says "other guys all run for the hills" (uh, duh, H, there's most likely a reason for this).... H said how slick she is in leading people on, that one time her live-in bf (that she left for H) even called her while they were at a workshop together (God, remember my days of "workshop agony"? I KNEW) and she was so slick when H was right there with her...."oh, are you upset about something? can you talk about it?" H seems to find it really....disgusting, disappointing, not sur what the word is.
Part of what is really hitting H now, and he even said this, is the realization, although I think it's for the hundreth time, that he wasnt really all that different from her other "conquests"....he fell hook line and sinker for the same sneaky cons that all the other guys did, and she manipulated him just as she did them. Maybe that's a big part of his problem though, because he has this need to see himself as "a cut above"...
Taken in that contest, I guess it maybe explains why he's having such a hard time with this. I mean, it's causing a complete reassessing/evaluation of who/what he is at his very core. I have to remember this. even though to me it's just a matter of getting rid of the manipulative tramp/wh--e once and for all, H has this deep need to believe that he was OH SO special and different to her. strange in a way. but scary, because doesnt this leave him susceptible? Also scary because there are some voids "bobo's" in his psyche that I can't love away no matter what I do. And scary because he said last night that he was so depressed when she "homed in" on him, that he feels himself getting that depressed again. That scares the crap out of me. He also said he wished he'd had more friends then, he wouldnt have been so susceptible, and that he does have them now. Maybe it's good that he has some insight at least. But it just dawned on me that there is a lot of this that truly is not about me/my failures/us. yes, things were distant and strained between us, but I still maintain that was a much from his depression related anger and withdrawal as my "failures"...as Always 14 mentioned, which came first????? I felt every bit as rejected as he did, I would ask for things (gestures, affection) and he would be so cold and angry, it hurt beyond words.
Always 14, I think you are the one who aske about H reading 5 love languages and after the affair...he's read them, some of his clients loaned him 5LL's because they were working on it, and he "swiped" my copy of after the affair and not just friends. I'm sure he's read them because bits and pieces come out in conversation.
Ellie, H is diligent about taking vitamins and fish oil and honestly works out 1 - 3 hours every darn day. I don't know what could be upped or tweaked in those areas, but I'd sure encourage it if you have any ideas. I'm trying to think what he takes, it's all Dr. recommended, I know he takes fish oil, multivitamin, B-complex, folic acid, baby aspirin. oh, and flax seed. That's all i can think of.
I did go to the financial counseling appt yesterday, havent mentioned it yet to H, but it did help me see some potential options. So just going is hopefully a start.
Another interesting note: neither H nor I have slept all week. Sunday nite I was haveing nightmares about monster...I dont' think H has had night mares but he's been restless and tossed and turned. It's like some negative force was building up in the cosmos. I know that sounds really weird, but it's true. Even H commented on it this morning and I swear it's like this has happened before when things are "coming to a head"...H did say this morning he thinks he'd do a lot better if he could get a good nights sleep.
H initiated ML before I left for work this AM...
I dont know how much of this is mlc, how much is other stuff....I just know it's way past tiring and frustrating. the thought just occured to me, I dont' know what he'd do if I decided to walk, I know that sounds narso, but really, I shore and prop him up so much emotionally.
You sound stronger, happy for that. You're a SAINT for helping him through this when it tears you up as well. BUT, you have to be aware of when it's getting toxic for you and back away. This is for him to fix, you did your part. It won't totally be healed for him unless he does it for himself, you know that. Be supportive, but let him be, with his space--best for both of you. Can you plan things to get out of the house more?
I understand the fear: after seeing our H's drift off to others, we have this fear that if we rock the boat, however ligitimate, or aren't there and happy all the time, then they will drift again. I struggle with this as well....be a doormat for just a bit or stand up for yourself and risk them walking away.
I think you can strike a balance. You can be there for him, even if it hurts, and ALSO take some time to detach for you by being away from him a little more (planned activities).
The way I justify my need for patience against some hurtful things now is that I was pretty horrible to H at times, he was patient, always bouncing back and showing love. I think I can do that now. I "snapped" out of it in our last break up...how long did he wait for that? I think I can do the same.
You're right...what did come first? I was horrible in my M, but I dug deep and found that it was mainly reactions to H's depression and anger with his job at the time...but how much of his anger and depression was how I was to him, and he felt safe expressing his emotions at work and not me for fear of hurting me. It's a nasty cycle....but in the end, we can both honestly say that we weren't our best. No one to blame...just time to cut that cycle and make it better now.
BUT, your H needs to realize that while the open dialogue is good, his need for you during his depression is getting you to feel the same...I can read it in your posts how stressful this is. Pull back a bit. If he asks, be honest and tell him that you want to be there for him, but it's hard for you too, and feel that you need a little space to keep things loving and supportive b/w the 2 of you. Kind of going on the "authentic communication" in Slowly's thread.
Hang in there, Deb. The book isn't done yet. You're strong beyond words...remember that.
Would he use a light box, like they use for SAD? Or there are fairly normal-looking desk lamps that use the same full-spectrum light that would be less noticeable for his office. And do you suppose he would give 5-htp a try? (5-hydroxytryptophan - a precursor to serotonin).
Also - could you get him to at least go to the doctor and get his thyroid and testosterone levels checked? Just in the interest of ruling out physical causes for his depression? (Maybe the doctor would be able to convince him to give anti-depressants a try if they don't find anything).
Meanwhile - I give you the same advice. You have got to switch his attention from OW to home by introducing novelty, flirting with him, sending him funny emails during the day so he has something else to think about and look forward to, introducing novelty into your life with him so he wonders what he'll find each night when he goes home.
You're so right, 14, about me having been icky and he was patient, and also about the balance. That is really tough for me. And he does bring me down, way down, with his depression. and sometimes he is clingy...I had at one time thought about taking off work today, didnt, and commented last night i wished I had, and he burst into tears, said "I thought you did, I need you here!" then kind of cheered, up, saying "but you wont be gone all day"...just so weird and hard to deal with. sigh.
You're so right, 14, about me having been icky and he was patient, and also about the balance. That is really tough for me. And he does bring me down, way down, with his depression. and sometimes he is clingy...I had at one time thought about taking off work today, didnt, and commented last night i wished I had, and he burst into tears, said "I thought you did, I need you here!" then kind of cheered, up, saying "but you wont be gone all day"...just so weird and hard to deal with. sigh.
Hi Ellie, He might use a light box, the desk lamp is a great idea, especially in his office over here, as it has no window...he hates it, calls it the cave...supposedly will be moving to one with a window, but I don't know for sure. I also have been meaning to get full-spectrum florescents for his work-out room, and forgotten it. I will get those this weekend, they couldnt hurt. I will need to look for the desk lamp, I know what you mean, can't think where I"ve seen them around town, may have to order it, but I bet it would help because he craves being outdoors, and does much much better when he is on sunny days.
I'm not familiar with the 5-htp. is it OTC? can it be gotten from pharmacy's or natural supplement stores? and...I know he'll ask....is there clinical evidence of effectiveness?
Getting him in to the Dr. is darn near impossible. It's been years. literally. however, what I might do, have done before, is call and suggest they send a letter reminding him that he's past due. did this years ago, and they sent one saying that dr'd been reviewing files and noticed it had been a long time since he'd had a physical, and he needed to come in. and he did. of course he asked me if I was "in cahoots" with her, which I denied.....
Is it legit for me to also call and ask if she would consider ordering the testosterone and thyroid for him? you know what I just recalled? his dad had some thyroid trouble within the last 3-4 years...Hashimoto's or something like that????? could there be a connection?
Sweetie, hang in there. You march on and do what you need to do...he will get used to the fact that he will be alone today. Take care of him, but take care of you too...you need OUT of the house. NOW.
I agree with Ellie...novelty...make sure it's fun for you too. Also, make sure it fits in with being YOU.
This is like a real addiction for your H...think of it like alcohol, etc....people go through horrible withdrawal symptoms...and lots of depression in teh wake of what they did to their life.
I see this also as the Depression phase of the MLC cycle...I'm sure you've read that already.
Kinda sad. I think of the day I got engaged and married, and how naive I was then...how full of love and endless hope. I never thought we would hit these rocks...but, then again, when we professed never-ending love, through thick and thin, being soul mates through it all....this is EXACTLY what we meant. So, every time I feel like a failure for letting this happen in my M (and I still have remorse), I also see it as the bumps in the road.
Nice, I had a dear friend, married for 30 yrs, tell me the other day that they had many times when they almost broke up and did actually separate. That made me feel better...feel real.
Quote: you know what I just recalled? his dad had some thyroid trouble within the last 3-4 years...Hashimoto's or something like that????? could there be a connection?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!
Hashimoto's is the most common cause in the US of hypothyroidism - it is caused by an autoimmune reaction against the thyroid gland which gradually destroys it. Depression is one of the symptoms of low thyroid. A tendency towards autoimmune thyroid disease can definitely be inherited (2 of my 3 siblings and I and a niece have been diagnosed so far!!!) and may manifest either as Hashimoto's (hypo) or Graves disease (hyper) within the same family.
Let me put together some information on thyroid disease and depression for you and maybe if you give that to your H he will be convinced to get it checked?
The tricky part may be getting him to see a doctor who will actually do a thorough enough evaluation. Obvious cases are easy, but there are many people whose numbers are only slightly abnormal but have serious symptoms, and it can be a bit harder gettin a physician to recognize these cases.
I think the company that makes the lamps is called Northern Lights?
Hi Ellie, I am really thinking a lot about this thyroid stuff now, because I see the same depression in FIL, in many ways. Since his treatment for Hashimoto's, it does seem to be better. One thing that just occured to me is that FIL was having a lot of joint pain, especially in his arms and shoulders, that is what sent him to the Dr. finally, until the diagnosis/treatment...then it cleared up completely. I don't know if that is a typical symptom or not, but Now, guess what? H is having terrible pain in his shoulders. We've both assumed it is from weight lifting, but????? Also, H has problems with allergies...is there any relationship between the two, if Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disorder?
I would love any info on Thyroid disease that you might have to share. I can give you either an email or mailing address. I was thinking about my odds of getting H to the Dr (not real high) but, I would sure try. I'm thinking my first shot would be the old "cahoots" method of having her send a letter that he's way past time for a check up, and I would clue her in about the stuff that's been going on and FIL's diagnosis. I'm sure she would check it out if she were aware of it. She knows about the A.... FIL's diagnosis was actually made locally after his PCP referred him to an internist because he wasnt able to get to the bottom of his symptoms.
Hi Ellie, I am really thinking a lot about this thyroid stuff now, because I see the same depression in FIL, in many ways. Since his treatment for Hashimoto's, it does seem to be better. One thing that just occured to me is that FIL was having a lot of joint pain, especially in his arms and shoulders, that is what sent him to the Dr. finally, until the diagnosis/treatment...then it cleared up completely. I don't know if that is a typical symptom or not, but Now, guess what? H is having terrible pain in his shoulders. We've both assumed it is from weight lifting, but????? Also, H has problems with allergies...is there any relationship between the two, if Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disorder?
I would love any info on Thyroid disease that you might have to share. I can give you either an email or mailing address. I was thinking about my odds of getting H to the Dr (not real high) but, I would sure try. I'm thinking my first shot would be the old "cahoots" method of having her send a letter that he's way past time for a check up, and I would clue her in about the stuff that's been going on and FIL's diagnosis. I'm sure she would check it out if she were aware of it. She knows about the A.... FIL's diagnosis was actually made locally after his PCP referred him to an internist because he wasnt able to get to the bottom of his symptoms.
