When I was thinking about all of this last night, I think I finally realized a couple of things. One, which I mentioned, is that I need a soul-searching experience. I need to become my own person. I'm a smart girl, I read the principles of DB, and apply them as I can, but I don't live them, therefore I have not really experienced the level of personal growth that some people on these boards have. I think that I need to KNOW that I am an honest, capable person outside of any relationships. The second thing, is that my H knows that I am continuing to put others needs before mine, particularly his, and that my turning the cheek to his affair is letting him walk all over me. I think that he needs to see me stand up for myself and say enough. (I may have posted all this earlier, sorry if so, I am on fast-forward and rewind today). I want to prove to myself, and him, I'll admit, that I can be strong and independent. My friends and family tell me that I have been so strong through this, but really, I feel like I have been weak, because I continually sacrifice my self-respect in order to keep my H in the house, to try and maintain some staus-quo, which is what I have always done. Appease the current drama, and pretend everything is ok. I do still want my husband, I do still want the dream and fantasy of having some great loving marriage, but he is not capable of that right now. The saddest part, is that he will truly have to bottom out, and lose me, before he realizes what he's missing out on. I can't even explain how I know this, just that I do. He knows it too...
Despite all this, I would like nothing more than to "convince" him that he's blowing it, to have some big drama conversation tonite where I tell him what I said above, but always the pleading works it's way in.
And, the other problem at hand, is how do I deal with him going to see her this weekend, if he does? i cna't throw him out, I don't want to leave, because I think he needs to deal with coming home to face me and the kids after his rendezvous, (not too mention I don't want him to bring her here), I want to tell him his bed is the couch, but I don't. I'm indecisive and nervous. Any advice on how to handle this element in particular?
Quote: altough I guess if I were you, I wouldn't contact the OW....I like the idea of typing the e-mail, but I wouldn't hit send. Doesn't really help anything.
I know you are right PArob, I am just angry and feeling vindictive. The whole reason I've never contacted her is because I know it would serve no purpose. Although, I have to say that today I've entertained thoughts of, should he leave to meet her, calling her when he leaves and then putting his clothes in the yard and locking the door. At least then his grand reunion would be him defending himself. Because, seriously, if he goes to meet her, I don't want to take him back again.
I purposely did not go back and read anything posted before yesterday, including anything I may have said to you before (I usually do that so I can be consistent). I just wanted to post what I am getting from your more recent posts no matter what I thought before (maybe the same, who knows).
It seems like you are REALLY playing the victim role. You keep posting all this stuff about standing up for yourself, as if you never did before, and putting YOUR needs first, as if you ALWAYS subjugated your needs for those of other people's. I think that's BS on both counts.
You FEEL that way because of what is going on. You ARE putting your needs first by starting to take control over your own life. Making the decision to read DB and post here took strength. Making the DECISION not to just react out of emotion and "what you're supposed to do" when your H is having an affair IS STRENGTH! It is weak to just give in to the emotion and do what feels right in the moment, even if that moment lasts months.
I get what you are saying about thinking he wants you to stand up for yourself. I felt the same way, as have MANY other people here, and for a percentage of them, it's true. For me, and the rest of those, not in the percentage, that WAS NOT TRUE. It was what I THOUGHT I needed to do to maintain self respect, but in the end, I realized that what I did about the affair, or did not do had NOTHING to do with my self respect because the affair had NOTHING to do with me. That sucked to realize, but it was true. I had to stop thinking that my W was "doing something to me" and realize that I was LETTING her stupid, selfish actions affect me. Hell, even thinking that she was being stupid and selfish was taking things too personally. She was simply DOING what I needed to be doing in a way. She was trying to make herself happy but was misguided in how to do that because she, like I, was placing the responsibility for her happiness on someone else, OM.
In the end (and no, I am not really at the "end yet) my W has opened up to me, as have countless other WAS when things get somewhat better, and said that IF I had chosen to go the other route, the "standing up for myself route" that really would just have been me being weak and letting my emotions control my life, she would surely have walked for good. OM was telling her all along that I would do that and he had her prepared for "more controlling" behavior from me, to which her response would have been to flee into the open, loving arms of the non-controlling OM. Turns out that by me really adopting the DB/DR principals and doing my best to give her the space, time and lack of attention from me to the affair, the OM was forced into the role that he said I WAS GOING to play in all this, the controlling, obsessive a-hole. He couldn't deal with the fact that W was still "working on things" with me and that I had not turned out to be the controlling bastard that SHE AND HE expected.
Long story short, you MAY VERY WELL need to "stand up for yourself" as some people in these sitches do but you need to stop thinking of that option as the "strong" one and the other, more DB like option of self-growth and giving time/space to your H, as the "weak" one. They are opposite sides of the same coin, and either can be approached from a position of strength OR weakness, it's all in how YOU think of it.
Fear and misunderstand of yourself can lead you to make NO decision, go into denial about the A and DO NOTHING. If you "tolerate" the A in this fashion, then yes, it is weak. Emotion and the kindly advice of good hearted friends/family can lead you to confront H, giving him an ultimatum. If you do THIS, it's weakness too because you still truly made no decision, you only reacted to H or what other's said.
I know you will find the strength to do the right thing. Just make sure that whatever you do, you DECIDE to do it, and that it's not decided for you.
GH
P.S. WTF? His C said for him to keep seeing OW...did I read that right?
Hi Leslie, I am so sorry that you are in this frustrating place. As far as a soul-searching experience, you are already in one. You ARE an honest and capable person. You are trying to stand on your own two feet and make a decision that will not only effect you, your husband, your kids and OW as well. That is a very large burden to bear. I too feel like I am turning the other cheek to H's A and letting him walk all over me. This does nothing to your self-esteem. It makes you feel weak and foolish. If you (and I) can continue to apply to the DB principles, we need to continue to "turn the other cheek to the A". Be the best person that you know you can be. When he comes home from his "rendezvous" be all happy and cheerful and don't question him at all about what he was doing. Trust me, he will feel bad about it without you rubbing his face in it. You take care of yourself and your family as you always would. Be tolerante and patient and let your H get thru his crisis in his own way and time. You be there for him as a loving and supportive wife. Don't push him into R talks to "convince" him of anything.
Anyway, hang in there. I'm trying to do the same. Just bite your tongue and think is what I'm about to do going to get me closer to my goal.
I didn't see what GH posted before I wrote. Listen to him, he is a very wise DB'er. I totally agree with him. The A has nothing to do with you. Therefore, do not react to it.
WTF? His C said for him to keep seeing OW...did I read that right?
Not surprised -- it is probably time for him to make SOME movement rather than chasing his tail in the same place. C is basically telling him to sh*t or get off the pot. Not unusual for a C to try to force some movement. It does not in any way suggest C thinks the A will work out or is a good thing to be doing.
Quote: Not surprised -- it is probably time for him to make SOME movement rather than chasing his tail in the same place. C is basically telling him to sh*t or get off the pot. Not unusual for a C to try to force some movement. It does not in any way suggest C thinks the A will work out or is a good thing to be doing.
Quote: WTF? His C said for him to keep seeing OW...did I read that right?
His C told him he needed to see her, or rather that he needed to fulfill his need to see her...H feels he needs to see her to realize if 1) His feelings for her are real, 2) she is toointense for him and he doesn't need that in his life right now, 3) He no longer feels that way for her. (This is his explanation, C told him he needs to get it out of his system.
Quote: It seems like you are REALLY playing the victim role. You keep posting all this stuff about standing up for yourself, as if you never did before, and putting YOUR needs first, as if you ALWAYS subjugated your needs for those of other people's. I think that's BS on both counts.
You may be right, GH. I have often been accused of playing the martyr (by H), and he still says that. I, by no means, am trying to imply that it is HARDER to kick H out, or that by trying to follow DB, I've been taking the easier way out. I know, and told H, that taking the easy way out is to say F*** You and move on. It is much harder to face the mistakes and pain of the past, heal from them and try to move forward, together. I know this. It would have been easier for me to NOT move to be with H, but I did, that's what I wanted.
Quote: Fear and misunderstand of yourself can lead you to make NO decision, go into denial about the A and DO NOTHING. If you "tolerate" the A in this fashion, then yes, it is weak. Emotion and the kindly advice of good hearted friends/family can lead you to confront H, giving him an ultimatum. If you do THIS, it's weakness too because you still truly made no decision, you only reacted to H or what other's said.
I feel like I have done both of these thiings. I ignore the A, pretend all is good, then get pissed off, talk to my mom or a friend, then turn around and give H an ultimatum. Exactly that. This is what needs to stop. This is why I feel like I have not truly taken the DB principles, which I believe in, and still believe can help me be successful in getting through this, regardless of the outcome.
I really appreciate everyone taking the time to post to me. It is helpful, if only because, yeah, friends and family (mine and his) tell me I should kick him out and let him figure it out on his own. I'm all for him figuring himself out, that has to happen, but kicking him out when there is still so much uncertainity is not fair to anyone, especially the kids. And, he doesn't want to go, not yet anyway.
Last night we talked, it got ugly, I always turn into "we can do this" no matter how firm I beforehand about NOT PURSUING. He has so much anger at me, for all of the years he feels like I didn't show him love. He feels that I placated him when necessary, kept him in his place so the boat didn't rock, and by refusing to deal with why I had no interest in sex, and did not give him the romance and affection he craved, I showed him that I didn't really love him, and I never really communicated to him what made me unhappy. Now, part of me feels he is overdramatizing, and is negating the great things about our old R, but he is also right. I feel like crap for it. I've often wondered if maybe we didn't really love each other, but were afraid to find anything different, and more needed each other. It is hard to show him anything different NOW, because he doesn't want that from me, and doesn't feel that for me, and so we fall in to the same old patterns, of pretending to get through each day, and keep the waters calm.
Anyway, so this morning,I told H that I know I kept him unhappy for a long time, and that I didn't want to stand in his way anymore. I have been trying to control him for years, and that wasn't fair. Told him to do what he needed to do, that I wouldn't kick him out, as this is his house too, his kids live here, and I didn't want to be responsible for his unhappiness anymore. And left it at that. He started crying and said that he has to see her, it's driving him crazy. And thanked me like ten times.
I am going ot buy a new copy of DR today, re-read it and start over. When I think of my life a year from now, or farther, when I think of the kind of man I want to be with, I think of my H. Regardless of what he did to contribute to our problems, I can see that he really really tried, for years, to fix things the best way he knew how.
Have read the going dark and persuing threads, and I don't think that going dark is necessarily the best thing for me right now. Also, as far as the persuing, I am a bit confused because I never persued in our relationship, and I know that H doesn't want that from me now, but I am afraid that if I stop all persuing behaviors, he'll see that as more of the same. I do know I need to back off and give him space, and that regardless of how meeting with OW goes, she will continue to pressure him, so I need to just think on this and figure out what works.
So, it is tonite. He told me at lunch. I am glad he told me, could have easily lied and tried to hide it. He was very upset and crying and apologizing, even nauseaous, and I just told him that he has to do what is right for him, and I was not going to stand in his way, or kick him out, I was not going to do or say anything about it.
I will try to be happy and cheerful, I know when I am wearing my emotions on my sleeve it makes it harder for everyone, including me.
Funny, he asked me what I was going to do tonite, said maybe go see x-Men with the boys, he said, "Don't you dare go see it without me, I want to go too." Now, I am not feeling as spiteful as yesterday, so I won't go, I won't call OW while she is driving here, I will do SOMETHING so I don't sit at home and cry, like dinner with kids, then when they go to bed a bottle of wine for myself.
So, he left and I am not crying, which is odd, because I have been all day, off and on. He said "I'm Sorry" before he left and said that he is not going on a date, there is no planned physical contact (BS), the apology really just pissed me off, why apologize for something you are openly doing, you choose to do? You apologize when you mess up.
Anyway, create your own reality right? Positive thinking? He may very well have a horrible evening and come home relieved that it is over.
