Good, now that you've gotten THAT out of your system, get back to the good stuff, will ya?
I don't have much to add except that you MUST decide to end the snooping NOW. I am not convinced you have done that. I think you may still resort to it just to "confirm" things in the future. Please, don't do this. You saw why it's bad laid out for you in this last experience. You read that email and got all worked up because YOU laced it with all kinds of meaning that COULD have been totally wrong, as pointed out by all the posters commenting on THEIR take on it. Remember, YOU will project whatever feelings and thoughts you have at the moment on these things and no doubt make them into something that supports your worst nightmares rather than accept them as the byproduct of confusion and NOT something designed to hurt you.
Please, let that be the LAST time you snoop. Even if you don't trust him, trust yourself to make decisions and have patience WITHOUT any help (read:hinderance) from whatever you find snooping. You are strong, you CAN do that.
Quote: you MUST decide to end the snooping NOW. I am not convinced you have done that.
You are right on this one. I have ALWAYS wanted to know everything, or at least felt like I needed to. I read that email, and it is out of context, it brought up so many wonderings, which are BAD, and pointless, I know. And then, instead of being my usual self on a day when H would obviously be upset, I was in a mood even though I was trying not too. I need to just let it go, and will try try try to do that. There have been a lot of good things lately, and it is like H said anyway, he is here, now, with me, and we are working on this, because that is what he and I both want. Do we know what the outcome will be? No, but you never do, right?
Plus, I don't like freaking out. That is not me, panic mode over what? It is what I want, for him to end it with her, and hopefully her reactions will push it even further off his radar.
I think part of this stems from this mood I've been in the past few days, I've had frustration thinking "why am I the only one pushing for us?" When the reality is that he is too, in his own way. His reactions and change towards her, accusing her of "cheating" on him, began around the same time things shifted for us, so it is plausible that this is his method, I know from experience that he is a blamer. I guess it just hurt that he even seemed to care what she does, it makes me wonder if that hadn't come up between them, would his attitude towards me have changed at all? I am scared that this is not real, that his moods will shift again, and I know this is where detaching and all that comes in. My biggest problem is keeping ME seperate from the situation. (There I go pondering and wondering again, but better here than anywhere, right?)
Thank you again, it did feel better to rant and be psycho.
Gonna do a bit of journaling, rambling, to try and figure my position. I am sitting by while my H goes through a break-up. His phone goes off constantly, he ignores it but then disappears into the bathroom for a few minutes, and unfortunately, the way our house is laid out, I can be in the other room and hear his little text beeps. It is constant. I am scared. Scared because he has done this before, broke it off with her, and went about two weeks before he freaked on me. Scared because he tells me the exact same things he's said every time he has "come home." Scared because she doesn't know the truth about me, so it is easier for her to fight for him, when she thinks he is dumping her because of a misunderstanding. (I'm gonna vent a little here, what a dummy! Wouldn't you be suspicious if your "boyfriend" only spoke on the phone with you during work hours, never went to see you for months, never returned late nite phone calls or texts, didn't talk to you on weekends...)
Also, H did tell me tonite that he is upset about a lot of things, and that he has residual sadness to deal with regarding OW, all that stuff you read about the "withdrawal." It is noticeable.
But more importantly, he said he realizes that finding that unconditional love he had for me is going to be harder than he thought. That he's realized he fell out of love for me YEARS before OW (I agree, it is the same for me regarding him), and thinks that something new and completely different will need to happen to bring it back. That he has a hard time getting over his lack of physical attraction to me, and that shocks him because he knows I am attractive, sees other guys looking at me, sees that I am looking damn good (his words) but most of the time he just doesn't feel that "can't keep my hands off of you" feeling that he used to have, and that he had with OW. He feels that my turn around regarding sex is fake and unreal, that it would be like if I suddenly came to him and said I was secretly a gymnast, it is just not likely. I even agree it is a little hard to swallow, but it is genuine, it took a lot of counseling combined with medical analysis to get there, plus, I was depressed and really unhappy with him and his not meeting my unspoken expectations. (I've told him this, too).
So, in a way, I feel like he still has one foot out the door. He did tell me that he loves me and wants to make this work, wants to TRY to find that passion and excitement again, and knows it will take a long time and a lot of work on both of our parts to even see IF we can get there, but he doesn't feel like he is really in any position to do anything about "us" because the rest of his life is such a mess. I guess this is where I step back, and lovingly re-detach and GAL, right?
Further, I am upset a bit because he is just sitting there, letting his life stay messy. He won't open his mail, his driver's license is about to be suspended because he has unpaid speeding tickets, hasn't made a car payment since November, I can't even believe it hasn't been repossessed. he doesn't take any responsibility for household stuff, or with the kids. Meanwhile,I don't want to say anything about it, because: 1)in the past I always handled everything for him, 2) I don't want to nag, 3)I feel guilty because I am unemployed and feel like I should just handle all the house stuff. I'm not necessarily mad about these things, more it jsut seems indicative of the larger unhappiness he is feeling.
So where am I? Pretending to happily buzz around the house doing this or that, trying to maintain this flirty, fun, happy demeanor? Because MAYBE my H will find those feelings again? Yeah, I guess so. Sometimes, I feel I am transparent.
The thing is too, that despite my venting about him above, I do love him. He makes me laugh, we have fun together, he's incredibly attractive. The kids adore him, he makes ME remember how to have fun and chill when I get stressed out. He's my best friend, & generally outside of the marriage problems, I can talk to him about anything. He encourages me to think about myself, to chase my dreams. I do not want to start all over with someone else. I do not want my kids to grow up in a broken home.
He is at his C appointment now, and will be gone for at least another hour. Tonite, I think I need to spend some time writing out some goals, and remember what works. REALLY bummed my copy of DR was stolen. We have had many many special moments in the past six weeks, and I don't want to blow it.
Quote: I am sitting by while my H goes through a break-up. His phone goes off constantly, he ignores it but then disappears into the bathroom for a few minutes, and unfortunately, the way our house is laid out, I can be in the other room and hear his little text beeps. It is constant. I am scared. Scared because he has done this before, broke it off with her, and went about two weeks before he freaked on me.
This is all part of what he has to go through, and what YOU need to learn to detach from. Also, once again, you hear beeps from the bathroom and assume you know what's going on. STOP, leave the house, go for a jog, DO SOMETHING to stop yourself from listening. I did this ONCE and that's all it took for my W to get the message that I was NOT going to just sit by and get myself worked up over this kind of thing. I don't know if that was the right message to send but it WAS the right thing for ME to do.
It's ok to be scared but in the end, being scared or angry or upset is not going to help you much. I know, easier said than done, but in reality, your fear is only causing YOU stress and not adding anything good to the situation. You can't control him, and you certainly can't control her so drop your attachment to it, drop your fear. It's fear of the unknown that's getting you more-so than fear of anything known. Just make yourself understand that you CAN handle this, no matter what "this" ends up being.
He has admitted to you AND her that he wants this over so he took the first step. Give him time and space to walk the rest of the walk on his own until he asks for your hand to walk with him.
Quote:
Also, H did tell me tonite that he is upset about a lot of things, and that he has residual sadness to deal with regarding OW, all that stuff you read about the "withdrawal." It is noticeable.
GREAT! I mean that too. It's really good that he is being open to you about this and TRUSTING that you will not freak on him or take it the wrong way. I suspect he is looking for validation and it's a great time for you to show that even on THIS, worst of all subjects for you, you can be supportive and loving. Again, this is a sign of trust on his part and a huge risk for him to take in telling you things about his feelings/OW. Please validate him and keep yourself open to this. The more he opens up to you, the closer you are to establishing REAL communication. Oh, and BTW, snooping and the like are the fastest way to shutting him down.
Quote: But more importantly, he said he realizes that finding that unconditional love he had for me is going to be harder than he thought. That he's realized he fell out of love for me YEARS before OW (I agree, it is the same for me regarding him), and thinks that something new and completely different will need to happen to bring it back.
Yea, I get this. My W has not come out and said as much but I know this is where we are at these days. She is just kinda waiting for that "spark" to ignite the passion she once had for me. Trouble is that I am so hesitant to DO anything that may ignite that spark because a lot of times she pulls back from anything that seems to be romantic. It is VERY confusing.
All I can say is that give him some time and hope that he keeps talking to you about his feelings. The more you understand about him from HIS perspective, the better equipped you will be to understand the whole picture, not just what you perceive to be the whole picture. Don't believe everything he says, just understand that this WILL give you insight no matter what.
Again, I feel for you with this "completely new" bit he's thrown at you. I, for one, think that my changes present a pretty powerful "completely new" aspect to our R and the more she sees of them, and TRUSTS them, the more she will be able to rekindle. I wish I could be sure of that.
Quote: That he has a hard time getting over his lack of physical attraction to me, and that shocks him because he knows I am attractive, sees other guys looking at me, sees that I am looking damn good (his words) but most of the time he just doesn't feel that "can't keep my hands off of you" feeling that he used to have, and that he had with OW.
Ditto here too. Again, my W has not said as much, but here too, I think your H and my W are in the same place. I REALLY don't know what to do about this. You go on to say that your H doesn't buy your new "sexual" attitude so I guess it may just take some more time to convince him. Again, time should work in your favor in this.
Quote: I was depressed and really unhappy with him and his not meeting my unspoken expectations. (I've told him this, too).
Good, so did you tell him so that he would understand what you changed from? More importantly, have you now dropped your expectations from the equation? Needs and desires are good, expectations, especially unspoken ones are bad.
Quote: So, in a way, I feel like he still has one foot out the door. He did tell me that he loves me and wants to make this work, wants to TRY to find that passion and excitement again, and knows it will take a long time and a lot of work on both of our parts to even see IF we can get there, but he doesn't feel like he is really in any position to do anything about "us" because the rest of his life is such a mess. I guess this is where I step back, and lovingly re-detach and GAL, right?
First of all, you have a WAH that is saying all the right things, something not many of them do. I know actions count more but take solace in the fact that he seems to understand that he WANTS to be back in the marriage but is unsure how to do that and more importantly, he understands that HE will have to start doing work on that front too. My W has still not made THAT particular leap yet. She knows she needs to work on herself, but US is another story...so far.
I don't know if you need to re-detach in the way I think you mean it, but if you mean that you need to stop snooping and paying so much attention to the status of the A, yes, you need to do that. I think you can tune in to his emotions a bit more since he seems to be trying to open up to you but try not to react negatively to stuff about the OW or A. The more HE tells you, the better off you two are moving forward.
Quote:
So where am I? Pretending to happily buzz around the house doing this or that, trying to maintain this flirty, fun, happy demeanor? Because MAYBE my H will find those feelings again? Yeah, I guess so. Sometimes, I feel I am transparent.
If that's what you feel like you're doing, then yes, you are transparent and it's probably one reason your H is using to justify to himself his hesitation from coming back.
You actually need to BE happy, not just pretend to be so. You need to take control of yourself and ensure your own happiness. Look, your H may NEVER come back. I don't mean to be harsh but at that point, you will HAVE to make yourself happy unless you just run into the arms of another man. So, CHOOSE to be happy today, and REALLY happy, not just pretend happy. Let yourself be transparent but when he looks through you, let him only see the joy that you are learning to create for yourself.
I KNOW that sounds impossible but I assure you it is not. It's simply a shift in your perspective on things. It is you understanding your role in your own life and most of all, taking the responsibility for your happiness back from him and accepting it for yourself.
Truly, BE happy and you won't feel like he's seeing anything else.
Quote: The thing is too, that despite my venting about him above, I do love him. He makes me laugh, we have fun together, he's incredibly attractive. The kids adore him, he makes ME remember how to have fun and chill when I get stressed out. He's my best friend, & generally outside of the marriage problems, I can talk to him about anything. He encourages me to think about myself, to chase my dreams. I do not want to start all over with someone else. I do not want my kids to grow up in a broken home.
Embrace all that wonderful stuff in the beginning and let the last two sentences go. Be motivated by love and zest for what life you could have and cast out the fear. I know I am motivated by fear a lot of the time but realize that for a long time, you and I only HAD fear and pain to motivate us. The good stuff, the love and kindness, the support and laughter were gone, replaced by constant sadness and feeling alone. Now we both have some nuggets of joy, even from the least likely of sources, our WAS, and we need to just enjoy those without condition or expectation.
I think you are going great, just have patience. You will see when I get around to posting, that I have a lot of the same issues right now and struggle to take my own advice. I hope you can take it better than I.
GH, Thank you for your breakdown of my rant. Sometimes it really is hard to not let the fear be the motivator, in fact I have actually worried that fear was my motivation, as I am sure we've all had. Or, what I am trying to say, is that I have asked myself if I would be better off without him, but the answer is that I don't want to find out.
I want to try and back off, in the sense of just letting things be, that is the detachment I'm talking about. I have spent too much time wondering who he is lying to, me or her, and I need to just accept that it doesn't really matter right now, two months ago I was sharing space with him knowing he was full-on back on with her, and I was letting go of that. My problem is that I turn good feelings between us into stronger desires and then expectations. I want reassurance that I am not going to get...
Last nite H came home from C wanting to talk...it got really heavy, becasue he pointed out that he has been unhappy in our R since the beginning, and really, it is true. He started coming to me six months into our R, telling me he needed more attention and love from me, and I honestly remember not understanding, not knowing how to go about giving it to him. I understand a lot better now, but when you realize your R has basically been jacked since the beginning, what do you do with that? And the conversation turned that way, I started crying, I couldn't help it, and we went to bed upset. I realized what he is dealing with in trying to recover and rebuild, and I told him that, but it is sad. He also went on to say that he KNOWS I have doubts and fears as well, and that I may not have dealt with anger and resentment regarding his affair. I tried to explain my feelings regarding that, and he shut me down, saying don't explain. (From DB principles, he was right,I know, but I didn't want him projecting his interpretation of what he THINKS I feel onto me). Anyway, he is right to a degree, but I think a lot of my uncertainty comes from mistrust of him and the fact that OW is not gone yet.
I want to try and get back to where I was a month ago, personally, and I want to try and give him the space to heal from his own pains and the A. We already decided to try and not go there today, and just hang out after work, go for bike rides and coffees.
Further, the reality is that I am not yet happy with myself. I have been unhappy for a long time, too, both within my marriage and within myself, and needs to become the priority, obviously. I know I have made lot of changes and had a lot of growth, but I am nowhere near done yet. And, that, most likely, will be how the spark and "something totally new" will come in.
But, I did have an interesting job interview yesterday, and I think I got it...so any developments on that front will be great. And, I've been waiting for the "Five Love Languages" to come in the library, it finally did, that book sounds really interesting, frankly I have no idea what my own love language is, so I can get that and take the kiddos to the beach and be distracted today
And so it seems, what appeared to be a break-up with the OW has spun back into my H being "confused." Today he came to me and admitted that contact with OW has increased a bunch this week, and that he is still really confused, and is not in any position to make any decisions, except that he is not ready to cut her out of his life. Long ugly discussion today, where he basically said he would like us to continue to stay in the space we've been in, doing things together and talking (not R talk, basically pretending we are an average married couple, but at the same time, he is no longer backpedaling from HER.
I am in a true moral dilemma here. I know what triggered this regression, the news of a formerly close friend nearly dying of cancer, has reminded my H that life is too short to spend unhappy...spiraling into all the years he spent unhappy with me...spiraling into OW made him so happy...and finally to "let's still pretend things are hunky dory, please excuse me while I call OW and tell her I love her." Also, she has moved, and now lives an hour away. The dilemma is, I still feel we can work this out, it is really only the beginning of this process, yet I also feel that I am being a bit used, and that he has too many comforts with me. I really don't want to give up, or throw any ultimatums. I really want to continue to have faith and hope, not throw in the towel. I really need to figure out who I am, what my life is about, because I do not know, and am afraid I won't find out with H around, yes, he said this to me, but it makes sense.
For now, neither of us can do anything. He can't even go see her, so that is a good thing for me. Another good thing, I know she is very frustrated that he has not come to see her, so I think I need to go back to about page two of my thread, re-read, memorize and DO all of the wonderful things and FOLLOW all of the wonderful advice I've gotten since I started posting, because we are back to that point again.
I so want to tell him to fcuk off, and then be able to stick to it (that is the challenge, eh?). I really wish that I didn't care so much, or wasn't so afraid, or wasn't such a dreamer, or whatever it is that keeps me hanging around.
Leslie, I know this is a really difficult time for you. I've had my W "end it" with the OM twice now, only to go back to him each time.
If you don't mind my saying so, I think you should try to find more fun or rewarding things for you to do away from him right now. Don't stop focusing on GAL. When my W came back each of those times, I think I was so focused on "helping her" with her "mourning" the OM, that I smothered her and chased her back to him.
Spending more time away from your H right now will also help you detach. Good luck.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Leslie...know how you feel. All these confusion that is being thrown by our WAHs. I am supposed in a "piecing" stage but yet not very sure if I am really piecing or not. Had a bust-up with H on Sunday, and he said that ow will always be his friend. That really p!ssed me off... I think we just have to detach... and be happy ourselves....
Quote: If you don't mind my saying so, I think you should try to find more fun or rewarding things for you to do away from him right now. Don't stop focusing on GAL.
I don't mind at all, you are spot on.
I really tried to shake by pessimism this weekend, but the mood was there and I think both H and I were feeling it, despite our efforts otherwise. Spent some time together, and alone, but I really feel down. I am regressing, and it sucks. I keep playing out scenarios of what happened, what is going on with H, and I KNOW this is pointless and I will never know and I need to focus on myself. I think that regardless of what is going on at this moment, H is scared to commit to anything. Last week his C told him he had completely regressed, so I am trying to just feel that, and believe that is what is up, and let it go. He knows, and tells me, that "we are on a roller coaster, there will be ups and downs." I am trying to get some comfort in the fact that nothing is really different from before, but it is not really working. I feel like H is looking to me to set the tone, and yet my moods feed off his, and we are both down and sad, so that is what is in the air.
The good news is that I believe I've got a job. Interview last week went well, and the employer responded to my follow-up email that she was preparing an offer for me, and wondered what my insurance needs were as wether or not they need to pay for insurance will affect the salary they can offer. So, need to figure that out, and will know for sure next week. It is not my "dream" job, (quite honestly I cna't tell you what that would be), but it should be fun and it is very flexible with scheduling, so that is good, I think that having a flex work schedule may give me the time to figure out what else I like to do, or to freelance for extra $$$.
So, I need to just focus on the day to day, and quit worrying analyzing rehashing and wondering...I still believe in my heart that the last few weeks things were improving, I don't think either of us are good fakers, if we were this weekend would have been fine. Since I know H reacts to what he perceives as my mood, I need to remember that, and really continue to explore ME and find MY OWN WAY...that is always what brings him around anyway, and that is why he fell in love with me in the first place, something I may need to journal about later.
Oh, yoyo, thanks for stopping by, I've been wondering how you were, as our sich's or so similiar...
Took the little one to this cool park by the harbor, and while he ran around and loved every dog that passed, I thought a lot about why I was so upset this weekend, and what is going on with ME. I can sense H is still really hurt and angry at my role in the breakdown of our marriage, and i've been feeling guilty about it, and sad. I have no excuse, really, I mean he contributed as well, but I can say that his issues with me were there from very early on, my excuses for my behavior don't start until a few years later. Of course, looking back, I can see that I was unhappy and depressed, I never actually intended to latch on to someone right after high school, immediately live together, have kids...I had little girl in the big city plans, until I fell in love with him, and then...life.
Anyway, I know that I am the only one responsible for my happiness, same for him. I have no interest in convincing him that I love him, or why he should continue fighting this fight WITH me, I expected backsliding on both our parts. Today, I told H everything above, and that a huge part of my withdrawal this weekend was that I feel horribly guilty for not showing him the love he deserved, that I repeatedly nodded my head, yeah babe I hear you, and then did nothing. Sometimes I read the Sex Starved Marriage Board, and it breaks my heart, because my H was the people on that board. He would tell me all of the things the posters over there want and do say to there wives...in fact, today someone posted about stopping in the middle of ML because it was so obvious their spouse wasn't into it, yeah my H did that to me once. It was always the same, I thought I would change, or didn't know what to do, or really, I didn't think he'd ever leave, that it wasn't REALLY a problem (I'm a Pisces, can you tell?)...
So, anyway, told H that I can never make that up to him, those years he feels he lost, I understand. That only time, whether together or apart, will show him the changes I've made in my life are REAL. And, I told him, again, that I just wanted us both to be happpy, that he is charge of his life and decisions, and I know that he is just trying to follow his heart. He said he feels like he did back in March (when I started this thread), and that he thinks he needs to get out of here for the weekend, but he doesn't want to deal with the scrutiny of it. I can totally understand, but now that OW lives so close, I would have a really hard time with it, he lied about her already moving near us, had told me last week that she MAY move, but hasn't yet. I have made it pretty clear to him since I moved up here that if he went to see her, that was crossing my boundary, that was essentially making a decision, I think this is why he has not yet met her. Now, he's telling me "maybe just for dinner" and "I need to, to see if my feelings for her are real" and "if I'm still thinking of her even though I haven't seen her for six months, that means something." (Disregarding he has been in daily contact, she is under the impression he is her boyfriend, so all the lovey flirty new romance stuff is still going on). Also, he told me that he can't shake the feeling that, even though the changes I've been making are what he always wanted, it is too late, and he doesn't know if he wants it anymore. I could believe this as a possibility.
And, like I've posted, I know what I need to do, for me. I know all the principles and ideals, I just need to live them, breathe them, and truly just give it away, I think that at this point, I can continue DB'ing, because for the time being I feel like this is just a step backwards, but I need to keep it in the now, and realize that he could be gone at any time. What do I want in my life then? That needs to be my focus.
