Been down this path before

[leslie]

So, I agonized all day yesterday about if and how I should bring up an R talk with H, really wanted the status of his feelings and what not. Decided to wait until kids go to bed and see how the air was...

H and I were having our usually after-work chat, when he asked if he could tell me something and too close the bedroom door...basically said that all the confusion he felt in March was gone, he knew what he wanted, and really felt that the past few weeks of just being together, with no pressure from me or questions, combined with counseling, has helped him to see that his fantasy about life with OW was nothing more than fantasy. That, at 25, she has a different agenda than him, different interests and goals and things to learn, and he has no interest in going through that with her. He has been feeling the love for and from me, and the kids, and his family and friends, and is ready to put this behind us and move forward. Also said that the time he spent with OW while we were seperated was extremely passionate, but that was all there was to the relationship, passion and attraction, and that only existed because he had been missing that for so long from me. (I confer with this).

Then he told me that two days ago he called OW and told her that their relationship was not going any further, it was not what he wanted. Apparently she has been repeatedly asking when they would get together, and trying to arrange meetings, and while at first, when I moved up here, he desperately wanted to see her, he longer WANTS to. He asked that things just continue on with how they are going, that I continue to give him space regarding OW, that there is still communication between them, and that he has been ignoring messages and texts, he knows he will need to call her again, and that by knowing that he CAN call her if he wants/needs to, it makes him not want to make that contact. (at this point I'll interject that I did look at cell phone records yesterday, and saw that she texts on average 8-10 times a day, while in the past few days he has responded only four or five times. This is a major drop off, on his part).

i told him that I was really happy that he came to me with this, and that I wanted things to continue at the same pace, and stil ultimately want him to be happy, so I would not pressure him to do anything. In our past attempts at reconciliation, I forced the no contact issue, rather than let it die on its own, and I will do my best to continue giving him his space and privacy. (yes, I know that means stay out of the cell phone records).

Now, I realize that I have heard most of this before, the difference this time is that he is trying to cut it off from her on his own, I did not ask for or demand it, that makes me feel good. Let OW put on the pressure, I mean to be honest, she doesn't sound like the independent free-spirit he claimed her to be, rather sounds needy and clingy and emotionally immature. While he has told me these things before, he has told her as well, I can justify trying to save this relationship because of history, kids, love, what is her justification? Also told me that OW is trying to move to San Francisco, an hour and a half away, which is disturbing, but he said it's not happening NOW, she is looking for work, and with how he's been feeling lately, her being closer won't have an effect.

So, I am not holding my breath, trying to continue in the same mind set that I've been in the past few weeks, and let things develop and rekindle on their own. H did say that for the first time, he truly feels that we are starting over, that new is being born within the old, and I completely agree. I don't feel foolish for feeling that things have been different this time around, I just need to keep focused and remain detached from his relationship with her, and see where this goes.

Feedback, comments, REMINDERS, Devil's advocates, would love your thoughts...

[grasshopper]

I think your H has just had the same talk with you that my W has had with me recently.

It is a real turning point but as you and I both know, it may or may not be the "end" of the affair. She will try to pressure him, just like OM is pressuring my W, and it's likely that some of the pressure will sink in and your H will have moments where he is unsure again. Just be ready for all this and remember that you are in this for the long haul. You need to do exactly what you said you'd do, detach, stay OUT OF HIS cell phone records and keep on with the positive outlook.

Him opening up to you is the more important thing than exactly what he said or does right now. The fact that he is starting to trust YOU is good but doesn't mean you need to jump right back in and trust him. That also doesn't mean you have to think everything he says is a lie either. You just take things as they come and do your best to live according to your own goals and desires.

I think you did well and will keep up with you. You seem to be in a really similar place so your story is of particular interest to me.

GH

[leslie]

Thanks for rooting me on, GH, I noticed we are in similiar places as well, in fact contemplated stealing your thread title if things keep moving in this direction

The pressure from the OW is already there, but I'm trying to see that as a good thing, much like we are taught not to pressure our spouses while DB'ing. That she and I are in a sense reversing roles, in that I will become the independent strong woman he was attracted to when we first met, qualities he was attracted to in OW, and she will actually start to look like the nuero-case.

It is still day to day, but the days are going by quicker.

[leslie]

Not much new on my front, things seem to be going rather well actually. Haven't posted because, well, it is easier to post when venting, don't want to jinx it! Had a very short talk with H Sunday, his phone buzzed Saturday night around 12:30am, I knew it was OW, and it bummed me out of course, mostly just because I had that on my mind when falling asleep, and it was still there when I woke up. Told H later in the day that it bothered me, not anything he was doing, but more that it was pathetic on her part, he told this girl it wasn't going anywhere, and she still texts him all the time, especially in the middle of the night, he barely responds (never responds at night, FYI). He said she still thinks they are friends, and it bugs him too, it is annoying. Told H that I wasn't asking him to stop, or asking why, was more just frustrated that it happened. Otherwise, great weekend together, I know that if I continue to not pressure, it will die off.

Monday he had C, afterwards he reiterated that he is happy with the decisions he is making in his life...I can feel the change between us, our interactions feel more natural. I am still trying not read too much into anything, there is a lot of other things to focus on, namely my need to find a job. This is a bit of a scary issue, as we are broke as broke right now, and financial management has ALWAYS been an issue in our relationship. Strangely though, in the past I would become obsessed when we had no money, freaking out being stressed all the time, but now, while it is an issue, I don't think about it all day long.

In some ways it is good, if we had extra cash right now, we would probably spend it trying to keep things busy and fun, essentially filling voids and not just learning how to BE together, so in a sense these tight times are maybe bringing us closer together rather than stressing us out. (fingers crossed)

[leslie]

Friday Journaling:
In my last post, I said things are going well, and they are, it is as I described it, even last nite H was sweet and funny and flirty, went to bed together, early, , it's nice to get that kind of attention from him, he really, genuinely could not act or function, in that way during his confusion episodes.

So why am I bummed today? Nothing particular has happened to send me into this mood. It started yesterday, actually. I feel like I need some kind of reality check, like we need to talk. I want to ask him where he stands with OW, what the nature of their relationship is TODAY. I haven't, because I am afraid I won't get the truth, as much as I am afraid I don't want to hear the truth. I still have real concern that he will take for granted my promise to not snoop, and use that as an opportunity to keep OW in his life. I want to know what steps he is taking to get rid of her.

And, sometimes I still wonder if this is what I want. I read a post earlier today, I can't remember who, but it was a guy who had an EA a few years ago, and now his wife suddenly wants a divorce. I thought that could end up being me, I could end up leaving, because I have a really hard time reconciling what I know about their relationship, the things they shared and the experiences he had with her, particularly the romantic/sexual experiences. I have spent a lot of time fighting for this marriage, and trying to not feel the pain, I am afraid if I start to let it out, it may be too much. Is it okay to tell our spouses we are scared, hurting, have doubts? When is the time to talk about our needs? It seems like we are in a space to do this now. Up until about a week ago, H and I had been having a lot of really in depth conversations about all kinds of things, and I wonder if my sadness comes from the fact that we haven't had any real conversations in the past week. There has been a lot of financial stress lately, so idealistic conversations have been on the back burner. Maybe I need to have a "feelings" conversation with him to keep that close, intimate space we've been in?

Wow, I'm really all over the place today. Think I am just stressed and sad,afraid to believe that things are how they seem, and knowing in my heart they are not completely as they seem, because their is still contact with OW. Need to think about all of this today. This evening H and I would have an opportunity to talk, so I think I need to focus on what I want to communcate to him, what my goal of the conversation would be...maybe just some reassurance, or a status check? Have a feelign I'll be hanging around here today...

[deezee]

I'm not sure I'm qualified to give you an advice, Leslie - I'm the guy, with a WAW, so our feelings may be very different - BUT: The best piece of advice I ever got from a counselor was to make sure you have plenty of light conversation, keep things positive, create new good memories, and put as much thought and effort into that as you do the "serious talk". Just something to keep in mind.

[leslie]

deezee, the advice is actually great, and it is right on, in fact I think that is a huge reason why my sitch is even in the present, positive state that it is. However, I think my H and I have both been avoiding any R talk, we rarely do, and I think we both may realize we need too. Regardless, he has told me he wants this to work, and his actions, for the most part show that, so I don't think I am necessarily out of line to request a lttle update from him...hopefully this evening when we are alone he'll be in the "mood" for a talk...

[deezee]

Good thought - let him pick the time. It's a good way to make sure he's in the right frame of mind. You bringing it up might make him think you have an "agenda". That having been said, maybe you can hint that you're OK with it too. The "witching hour" comments from DR come to mind though - make sure evening is historically a good time to accomplish something.

[leslie]

Okay, I really need some advice here...Did talk with H, he actually came to be and said various things had upset him the past week, but he wanted me to know that he hadn't talked to OW in over a week (verified by phone bill), he loved me and KNEW he wanted to be with me, make the plans for travel and fun and life we've been talking about and whatnot...Felt weird on Mother's Day, saw there were a lot of texts between OW and H, and did the ultimate snoop todya, checked his email and found this email from OW sent today

Hey (H),

Figured this might be better than long ass text
messages for getting a few things out. Tell me please
what I'm supposed to do when the person I love tells
me they can't do this, they're not willing to try,
they can't have something like this in their life at
the moment...but then, the feelings are still there
and you still want my support and my love. I
think this "intuition," these horrible thoughts you're
having are repurcussions from your own decisions being
misguided. You don't want to end any of this. You're
scared. You're impatient. You're insecure from not
seeing me. Please, fight hard to find a balance. The
balance isn't there right now, so you feel like [censored].
You feel like I've got so many other things going on.
I have a life, so do you, but you're a big part of
mine. But I need to feel like you're there for me, and
how can I feel that, if you keep, in a sense, bailing
on us? I know you're not really bailing, but there's
something to say for effort and sacrifice to keep this
going. It gets hard. Hell, everything does. But I
don't think you're gonna feel any better if we keep
talking but not getting together.

If you had talked to me more these last couple
weekends, you would know that the whole bachelorette
weekend was filled with me--yes, the only sober
person, believe it or not--taking care of several
hammered women at Susan's house. Having brunch,
getting sunburned, hanging out with (name omittted), then
driving home melancholy from missing my best friend.
If you had come to the wedding, you would have seen
how much scrambling around I did the whole weekend so
that XXX would have a beautiful wedding.

My wish for us would be for us to see each other
as much as possible, for you to feel the love from me
in every word, despite me not being able to be there
every morning...for you to be able to extend yourself
enough for that. I know that things are rough for you.
I know that you have so much on your plate and so much
to sort out. If you didn't mean so so much to
me, I would have taken the high road long ago. You
need to have more of me to feel sure about anything,
and to have more a me requires effort--however hard it
may be--on your part. Without that from you,
committment on my part would be half-assed. Cuz how
could I be sure that in a week, you wouldn't simply
change your mind and find that me in your life is
simply a bad idea? You've done it before.

This obsessiveness about me being with other people
frankly makes me wonder if you hear anything I'm
saying. Is that all you care about? Getting pissed
about other dudes and being able to point a finger at
me, the vixon? I've felt like you've given up on me
twice and dropped the ball, and yet I've remained true
to my feelings for you. That's a lot! And a lot, that
frankly, somebody that did the same to you, you would
say, didn't deserve. This has been a transition. A transition that has involved a lot of
strength on my part. Alone. I've had NO time for
anybody else but myself and those that already mean so
much to me. That includes you. Stop this nonsense and
accept the love I'm willing to give.

Please really thing about what I'm saying...


Love,

OW


So, please give me feedback, I know I deserve 40 lashes for snooping, but I knew things were not exactly as he said. Obviously I can't tell him I found this...We have been living and acting as a married couple. he has told me that he ended it with her, and wants to focus on me and us, right now I want to pack my [censored] and leave for some days...I don't know what to do with this, or if I should do anything at all.

[believing_isaiah43]

Oh, honey, I could hit you with a noodle for hunting down that email. (read my thread for all kinds of warnings about how snooping will kick your butt later)

BUT: This is a pretty good email, in the big picture. She's all whining and begging, and needing him, etc. BECAUSE HE BROKE IT OFF. Give the man credit. She's trying to push whatever buttons she can to get him to react to her. Obviously she knows nothing about DBing, ha.

Now stick that email in the shredder, and GET ON WITH YOUR M. You are only in control of YOU, and your H wants to get on the train with you now, so whatever you are doing is the right thing. DO NOT LET THIS CRAP FROM THAT HARLOT CHANGE HOW YOU ARE LIVING IN YOUR R.

No, I'm not opinionated about OWs.