Ok, it's looks like I got your defenses up with my condenscending tone. Truce?
NOT AT ALL Mama. You're too sensative about that these days, lol. I took NO offense to anything you said. No truce necessary, I assure you. I will TRY to keep the deal, and you too!
GH, Some observations. First, you don't know whether your W is back to seeing the OM. She may well be going out with friends and from what you've posted her requests seem reasonable. If there had never been an OM you would probably not have a problem with what she is doing.
So, instead of letting this weigh on your mind and stress you out maybe you should tell your W to have a good time and plan something with your kids. She is probably waiting for the old controlling GH to come back. I know you've said that she pays more attention to action than words. This is an opportunity to show her, and yourself, how much you've grown. She is allowed to have a life outside of you.
It also seems like you need to find some way of getting some of your needs met without it pushing her away. When she asks you if you're OK, perhaps you could still say yes, but say you've been under a little stress and could use a hug. It would satisfy your need for touch but not be sexual and scare her off.
As for a R talk, they always seem like they're going to go better than we think. Everyone's already beaten you over the head, but I'm going to add my two cents. Don't do it.
Finally, take some deep breaths. All of this DBing (and we really have to do it for the rest of our lives) can take a lot out of you.
Wow. That's all I can say. Lots to post but not too much time. Here is the Clifs Notes version...
W was in a FOUL mood when I got home from work this afternoon and I STARTED to be the old GH and get angry at her for being distant and moody. I let some of my frustration slip but I did finally get control and I just let her be. I went to the game and she barely acknowledged that I left.
When I got home, she was on the phone with the GF she says she is planning to go out with. Well, she didn't do a very good job of being quiet and I could tell she was NOT talking to any GF. It was a man but I don't know who. So I got pissed, calmed down, but still did my little passive/agressive thing and went out to the garage where she was to get one of my cameras from my car. On the way past I said loudly, hi GF (her name of course), and kept going. On the surface it was not unusal for me to do that. I know this woman pretty well and like I said, that was not THAT unusal, except that I know it wasn't her on the phone. I instantly regretted doing that.
When W came in, I was upstairs and she yelled up to me asking "what was that all about?" I played dumb and said "what, I was just saying hi", more out of embarassment than anything. I guess I did a good job because she must have decided she was being paraniod and apologized to me. I let it go and so did she...whew.
What then ensued was a LONG R talk, or really her opening up to me that she had a bad day and she needed to talk to her friends. I said I wished she would feel like she could do that with me. She said it was nothing and she would be ok...then proceeded to lay out a LOT of things on her mind. In the course of all this she said she was trying to save our marriage and, get this, that she REALLY loves the man I have been over the past 2 months, even more than when we got married. It's just that she needs time to work through her "issues" some of which she outlined but I have to assume some of them are about OM.
There was a lot more but that was the gist. I will post in great detail tomorrow or maybe Monday. Good place to start a new thread.
GH, that is a great and amazing post. Let her take the lead to the R talk, and woo whee! I am very proud of YOU! I can't wait to hear more details. Great job
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
VERY quick update. It continued on...she spilled about EVERYTHING. Names, places, you name it...the REALLY bad part is that this guy is not getting abusive and she says he is VERY obsessed. His brother told her some things about him that nailed the coffin shut on the A but now she is afraid of this guy. I will post a lot more in the coming days.
WOW! You have just passed a huge hurdle. What a relief it must be for you. Continue to be the strong person that you have become, continue to DB and be loving and supportive to your W in her time of crisis. Way to go!
VERY quick update. It continued on...she spilled about EVERYTHING. Names, places, you name it...the REALLY bad part is that this guy is not getting abusive and she says he is VERY obsessed. His brother told her some things about him that nailed the coffin shut on the A but now she is afraid of this guy. I will post a lot more in the coming days.
Um, that should read that the guy is NOW getting abusive. More details when I get time, and it will be a LONG read.
I told you that lots happened/was said last night...here is the whole story, or what I can remember...
Like I said, W was talking to "GF" when I got home from the game and I made a show of saying hi to "GF" as I walked by W on the phone. W thought this was strange but I managed to convince her that it was innocent.
Later on she stated for no apparent reason that "You have your therapy, I have mine" and as I walked down stairs to ask her what that meant, she said "I just needed to talk to friends sometimes." I said "I'm glad you have people to talk to." From there the convo went something (and this is a LOT of paraphrasing) like this:
W: I have had a rough day
M: I could tell. I'm sorry.
W: That's why I was on the phone when you got home, and why I have been talking to a lot of people today.
M: Again, I'm glad you have people to talk to. It helps sometimes. I hope you will feel that you can talk to me too sometime.
W: No, I'm fine now. I just needed to get it out. You know, it's not always about you.
M: I know. Actually, you need to understand that I don't really thing it's EVER about me anymore.
W: That's not true. It usually IS about you in some way or another.
M: Ok. I guess I understand.
W: If you only knew the day I had, you'd understand a lot more.
M: Why don't you tell me?
W: It's ok, I don't really want to talk about it anymore.
At this point W & I started talking about communication, and how she has realized that she never communicates with people, especially those she is closest to, and most of all me. We discussed at length our issues in terms of communication including my defensiveness which my W went into detail about how she didn't like that about me in the past. She talked about how in her family you just didn't ever say what you meant or felt because if you did you'd be shut down. She learned that from her parents. She said she knew she needed to open up BUT also commented than in all our years together I never opened up to her. I never knew she felt this way.
I got to express how important I knew validation was now and she actually broke down crying saying that validation was something she never got from her family or anyone else and she really needed it. There were lots of hugs around now.
She also touched on how everyone has always told her that she's a people pleaser and how she really didn't want to be that anymore. This got a little tense because it was similar to the "bomb" convo where she said she needed to "do things for herself" but this time she stopped short of saying she couldn't do these things from within our marriage.
We talked about how it was important to make ourselves happy, and I even got to throw in some 5 Love Languages stuff and how I know she likes to receive gifts. She commented that I have somehow been able to get just the right things lately, like the VS stuff and the flowers I buy every couple of days. I told her how I was a physical touch and then asked her "What do you think I want most from you physically right now?" She paused, I think not sure what I meant because it was so obvious. "Do you think I want sex most of all?" I asked to be more direct. She said "Yes, of course." I said "no, I really would love to just kiss you" I went on to talk about how we never really kiss and that I had intimacy issues I needed to deal with but that if we did get our marriage back on track, I would like to change the way we are intimate and our overall affection level. I also addressed the fact that she never touches me. From there I told her that I remembered how she once told me that she gave all she had to this old BF who ended up cheating on her and how she was holding back ever since, with me too. I told her how much that hurt and that I needed more from her.
At the end of all this she said the most wonderful thing.
W: You know, over the last few months, it's like you've done a 180 (I swear to God she used those exact words...a grin crossed my face). I like, LOVE you now even more than when we got married.
M: Well, thank you. I feel like I am a much better man than I was back then too.
I don't really know how we got into the next stuff. Basically, I think she just launched into it...
I am not going to try to remember the outline of the convo but she started by saying that "someone got physical with her today" and started to break down. I comforted her, told her that of course I wanted to DO something to him, etc.
She went on to tell me that she's been trying to break things off with this guy for some time now. She said at first he was ok with that, then he started to get obsessive. She actually slipped and used his name. It was the name I thought it was. She said that she actually wasn't on the phone with GF when I came home but rather it was OM's brother whom she claims is trying to smooth things out. She said this guy is nice, has a family, etc. He says that OM has a history of crazy behavior and my W said it scares her. As I got more worried, she tried to downplay it. She then went into detail about what he did yesterday. Apparently she told him once and for all that it was over and she didn't want to see him anymore. He got in her face and pushed her down. This was in public, right in from on the resturant they ate lunch at.
She then, so that I understood why this was SO bad, started to describe him to me. I stopped her and confessed that I had seen him the day after the bomb drop. She was floored. She didn't get angry or anything but she was shocked. I told her how I saw them together and knew what kind of car he drove, etc. She asked me to describe him and when I did, I guess she believed me. What I described was a guy about 6'4" 280lb totally ripped muscle head guy. For the record, my W is about 5'4" 100lbs. Real tough guy to push her around.
She went on to say he has a lot of money and suggested she was concerned about his "connections" but again, downplayed that. He is Italian...great...
So we kept talking about this stuff for awhile. At some point she told me that she really needed to work on these issues because she was trying desperatly to get her marriage back. She said that she now realized how there are psycho people out there and she was totally devastated that she put herself, us, in this position.
One of the more disturbing things she said was that there were some things that happened (or rather that he did) that if I knew I would go "balistic". I have no idea if she means more violence or something sexual. I didn't pursue it much.
Anymore, she said how good she had it with me and how I would NEVER do these things to her. She said she wondered why I was still around through all this. I said it was a decision I had to make early on, to basically forgive her and then it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do to stick by and watch all this happen.
Overall, we probably talked for about 3 hours. I was validating and NEVER judgmental. She commented on how she recognized that I was almost (lol) never defensive anymore and how easy it was to talk to me (thank you John Grey). I told her to just don't go to the gym (oh, he IS a trainer) and just avoid "their spots" for awhile. I told her that I was there for her and even though there were things that she wasn't telling me, she was not alone.
She was drinking and pretty far gone at the end of the night but was still open to me.
I am forgetting a lot, I know, but that is most of the important stuff. I will read over this in the morning and add whatever I forgot.
I would say that I got all the answers to my questions and I didn't even have to ask. I am now worried about my W but I guess I have to trust her a little bit to deal with this.
I am tired...time to take a break...
GH
P.S. She said this psycho asked many times to meet me! WTH...
GH, it's so great that your W was finally able to open up to you and communicate. I think yesterday will go down as the turning point in your marriage.
I do think you should be careful, though. If your W "ended it" yesterday, then she's not anywhere near over him. Even if she was adamant yesterday, she may very well give him the opportunity to apologize, and she may decide to forgive him, and that may give them the chance to kiss and make up. Affairs are like drugs ... we know that they defy logic and common sense.
GH, I sincerely hope that it is over forever, but I've been down this road and I can tell you that you don't know that for sure yet. Be careful while you celebrate.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
