how do you deal with this?

[believing_isaiah43]

always_14, could we be separated at birth? this is exactly who i was in my marriage before bombs dropped/A discovered. the process you described was right on. i've been gleaning insight from everyone else's lives and have yet to post my own sitch b/c it feels like it would take forever and a day to write it out. but i'll get to it. just wanted to thank you for your insight, and making me feel better!

[PositivelyListening]

Hi Always! You are the best! Thanks for writing to me. I feel like if I can just ride on your coattails, live by your example, I might get to piecing someday. At very least, I will be inspired by being in touch with myself in ways that I now am only occasionally. Your attention to your part of the sitch is so helpful:

In our M, sure, there were things that BOTH of us did. BUT, my actions were really bad: controlling, emotionally toiling, carried a fight forever, threw things from long ago at him, had to be right, demanding, never happy, always argued, subtle put-downs, etc. H was patient, then withdrew, when we moved he tried again, changed the things about him that I had issues with (anger, depression, etc), but I didn't notice, I just kept on.

Of course, I did all this too. I missed my H's signals, his cries for acknowledgement, his requests for my participation in doing it differently. Did I listen - NO! I went in like a bulldozer, after all my way was best, HE just needed to get that. Oh brother, no wonder he shut down, gave up, and finally went away. And no wonder he doesn't tust or believe in my changes yet. I'm not even sure I've really made them yet. Otherwise I would understand that it will take a while to undo those years of pain he endured. No wonder the OW and a fantasy life with her looks good. Or maybe even being alone looks better than what he remembers about me. It is funny, I have apologized a few times to him. And yet now, I am expecting him to move towards reconciliation, because I have indicated that I am sorry? And I think I have reasons to be cautious... He was almost all the way out the door. The fact that he is still in the country, in our town, and even more unbelievably, still doing stuff with me and for me is a show of bravery. Well he is courageous. I was not very nice before. I didn't mean to be mean, and I had my reasons and I have my justifications and I have my excuses. But it isn't pretty. I didn't get it, and he was trying to tell me. We just weren't speaking the same language, and the frustration was escalating. He changed, I changed, we got lost somewhere along the way. I have said this, and I will again until it is real in my hearts\ and hopefully his heart too, regardless of what happens. I never thought of me as being in a fog before, but you are right, Always, I was in a fog. I am just coming out of it now. It was a big wake up call. I have actually thanked my H for this situation, believe it or not, because of what has been reveled that was lying sick and dormant.

So, the point is....that was MY fog, my falling off the wagon. Now, I hope that H can forgive me for some awful things during that time. So, likewise, it applies that I should understand that this is a time when H is a fog, in a dream.

Thank you for this. I have now what I need to remain patient, for at least one more day

[PositivelyListening]

I'll be away for a few days - thanks to everyone who helped me today. Keep it going, I'll look forward to checking in with y'all when I get back. I can not begin to tell you what a difference you all make for me.

P.S. At what point do the threads lock up?

[Walking]

Also, right after he came back from trip to OW, there was access to web site about "Live in Victoria, Australia"

That's just what we need - another man in mid life crisis.

Perhaps we should alert immigration!!!

[always_14]

So, how did the weekend go?

[PositivelyListening]

Hi Always & all

It has been an interesting week. I am now beginning to get the hang of the fact that my H is definitely in MLC and is as emotionally up and down as any of the rollercoasters out there. I am learning not to react and to remain detached at least on the surface. Sometimes it is also real, but that still comes and goes. Still I am proud that I am maintaining myself and my composure well.

Last weekend I went down to my D's house with my birth mom, and H was also there. It was a combination of pre-graduation celebration (my D had a presentation of her thesis as well as her classmates showing their work) and my H and I also worked on the house together, as we are getting down to the wire with the city. H was back to being cool and aloof. I was PMSing and frankly fed up with his on-again, off-again attitudes. In my head, I was reviewing giving up on all DBing patience and letting him know what I really think is going on, and what works and doesn't work for me. I remembered that everyone has been telling me it is too soon to have an R talk, but I was feeling so fed up that I was feeling like I did not care, I just was gonna burst. All I was doing was practicing in my head to see if I could find a kind way to be really direct and voice myself to him before I exploded at an inappropriate time. I am used to having a voice, and am well respected and loved by the people in my life. The thing that is eating me the most right now is how disrespectful some of my H's behaviors are, and how his behaviors indicate that he completely takes me for granted. What's hard about this, is how VERY VERY helpful he has been in some ways, so very generous. In terms of his time working on the houses, unbelievable. His decision to keep paying into our shared household expenses, rather than bail or dissappear, is really wonderful. I think these are the right things to do, but he's doing them, and honestly he didn't have to - we all know this. So I appreciate that very very much. But it feels like he is buying me off, and doing these things allows him to excuse hiself for his bad behavior re: the A and the OW. It feels so compartmentalized. This part of me he will work with (business, money, family) and this part he won't (intimacy, genuine honesty and openness, etc.) So I have been in an inquiry about how long I am willing to have half a relationship with him, it feels like settling for so much less than what's possible, it is often depressing and frustrating and sometimes I am not sure if anything will ever get better. My only hope is that he will end the A in a tolerable amount of time, so we will at least have a chance to look and see if there is anything we will want to do to save our M together before i just can't stand it anymore. I really want to do something (anything) to move it forward. Of course I do not want to do something to make it worse, though. So, I spent some time being nice and helpful to H, but sometime being disgusted by his behavior and handled that by walking away. New for me. Didn't necessarily feel good (as it's not the kind of R I'd prefer to have with anyone) but certainly better than confronting him or showing my anger right now, I think. Because he is not really hearing me when he is in that space anyway. I only stayed one night in the hotel with him (while mother stayed w/ D) and at dinner alone with him before I left, I got pretty aloof. Spent some time staring at the shop windows, listening to other people's conversations, entertaining myself. I am usually pretty engaging with a lot of good stories and laughs. Weird, but by the end of the evening, H took my hand to cross the street to my car, kissed me good bye briefly on the lips instead of the cheek, told me he would rather I stayed instead of leave that night, and asked me to text message him to let him know I got home safely (text messaging is their world - his w/ OW - he has NEVER asked me to text message him). So that's the way that works. I get to the point I really don't care, and I get a little more of what I was looking for all weekend. I am sure you are all laughing right now...

Mother's Day, H decided to join mother and I for Sunday brunch. Made stupid comments about never passing up a good meal (rather than wanting to be with us), and made a stupid comment about my dress being revealing (instead of telling me that I looked great - which I did!) and it was not too revealing, except that the tall guy must've looked down my front This is not the first time he has been critical when I have looked really good. It was a new, very pretty, silk dress. However, he brought me flowers, as well as flowers for the mama. I caled him later in the day to thank him for the flowers, as he was rather aloof at the brunch and I didn't give him very much attention. He said, "You really like them?" and it seemed like it matterd quite a lot, so I told him yes I did, and especially because they were the color of the flowers from our wedding, and he said yes I know that's why I piscked them for you, and seemed all happy that I cared about that. Mr. Yoyo man. He called me one day this week all cheery and funny about the electrician, asked me to do some stuff, and called me an hour later needing help from me on my computer (which I could not provide because I was out having lunch (and he sounded really impatient and irritated about that.) Cheery and thrilled with me one minute, irritated and impatient and taking me for granted the next. God forbid if I let any of that run me.

Also one more interesting bit, he brought up conversations about integrity and ethics three times. Wanted to know what I thought. Some were unrelated to his behavior directly, some were. Somehow I thought this was very interesting. However, he is still lying and concealing every activity with OW - he has not mentioned her existence since his last trip to see her. I would like to find a way to gently invite him to tell the truth in all arenas - is this still taboo?

Tomorrow, we head for the big weekend: D's graduation including a trip to Disneyland with a large group of relatives and friends, a BBQ we are hosting for even more folks, etc. Most everyone has not seen H since twe separated in January. I have promised d that her graduation will be special, and I know no matter what H does I willnot let her down. I even talked to H about taking care of himself if he needed to "get away" from the group thing, and he got defensive and said, "You act like I've just crawled out from under a log or something!" (and I dropped that real quick although I was thinking well duh! you just did peek out for a minute...) Anyway, next week we have the big move where we close escrow, D moves all her stuff to our house and stays with me for a month or so. I realized that after that I have no more plans with H for anything. I am kind of excited to see what happens after that. Menawhile I have 3 nights in a hotel with him, a weekend being really happy surrounded by all of my closest friend and relatives, honoring my special little gal. So I will be looking and feeling my best. Let him tuck that in his socks when he is in his rented room watching reruns.

I decided to make an appointment with DB coach Chuck for Wednesday in between graduation and the big move. I need a strategy and support for this next phase. I have been contemplating what can and should not be said, and I will need some guidance. I have been reading "Tough Love" and the author claims there can be no end to the A without a crisis. Many in my life (including me sometimes) feel I have been making it too easy for H to be comfortable without changing anything. "Tough Love" advocates forcing discomfort so that they are caused to take action. I dunno how this fits, but it does definitely feel like some 180's are in order, and I have been having a hard time trying to figure out what to do. I am still far too predictable in H's eyes. Most everyone doesn't see how I could GAL any more than I already have, but this is not new to H. He needs to see something surprising.

Also, I have a question. Is it appropriate to say/do things that would normally be inapropriate in a committed marriage, in order to hopefully engender a little jealousy? Like if I think ballroom dancing is sensual, is it OK to say so and talk about it with H? Is the distance I am supposed to create (which is as far back as he is) supposed to include dating other men or having new men friends (since he has OW) This seems counter productive even though I am 100 % clear that Ihave boundaries and would NEVER act on advances from someone else. What are your thoughts on this? I told him a few months back that I was going to the movies with a friend, and he said "great, I'm glad" and I said, "I didn't think you would like it if I was going out even if you are", and he said, "Well I meant with D or someone like that." At the time, I didn't say either way. So do I honor his comfort zone, or shake it up a little? Does that breed mistrust, or interest in me?

[PositivelyListening]

Hi all, I am not sure when the threads lock up, but thinking it might be soon. Here is my new thread:
PL's new thread

I am going to be gone for a few days, for D's big graduation and 3 solid days with H. I hope I will have lots to read upon my return. I will probably have lots to share by then! Meanwhile, hold me in your thoughts and prayers.