how do you deal with this?

[oldtimer]

You may find this thread helpful, especially the last post... Don't send the flowers

[PositivelyListening]

Hi OT, I always really appreciate your direct and very useful feedback to others. I have read you on several other threads and get a lot out of what you share. Yet I find when I get a message from you on my thread, it feels like it doesn't relate to my situation. Sometimes I think I need to listen harder, but sometimes I think you have missed the specific situation I am in. OK if we dialogue a bit more?

I get how obnoxious the clinging co-worker is. Or the guy who sends flowers when the wife has said (in a really straight manner, I might add) "I don't care about you, I don't want anything to do with you, I'm shipping your stuff to you so I don't even have to see you." I can't imagine anything being more nauseating and/or creating an experience for someone to feel like they haven't been heard. So, do you see my situation like that? Because I don't see it that way. I asked my H to find another place to stay when he revealed about the A in January. He did not want to move out. He just wanted to carry on with the A to see where it would lead, because he thought perhaps he had found his soul mate (and if she was his soul mate, then I must not be). It was the ILYBINILY convo, the "bomb". H is in MLC and had a precipitating event. H has said that he does not want a divorce at present, but is "in an inquiry" about staying married to me. He had sex with OW on the first encounter, which occured at a European spa where everyone is naked. I don't intend to make light of his true feelings for her at present, but I don't think their R is the real issue, even though he might think so. OW is married and lives in a foreign country and will not be leaving her H & family. I am hopeful that his R with OW will expire and at some point and that he will turn fully in my direction again so we can begin to look at the possibility of a refreshed and alive M together. He has a lot ot lose, as I do, and I think he knows that but doesn't know what to do about it yet. Meanwhile, H still shares financial responsibility for our household, has a dedicated office in our home for his business (and comes and goes as needed with my consent - after reading DR - to create continuing opportunities for contact while allowing enough "space" for him and me). H has indicated he would like to remain business partners with me even if he can no longer "give me his heart." That is the exact arrangement his dad has with his mom, and his mom has settled for that for 30 + years. H characterizes mom staying with dad under those circumstances as mom being "committed to the marriage". Would I settle for that as a permanent lifestyle? - Absolutely not.

However, in DR I am told to be patient and loving - to let him see how cooperative I can be. I am not supposed to bring up OW or A - not to intiate R talk. I have done some 180's. I have listened alot more and talked a lot less. The DB coach I talked to (Chuck) said based on my H's typical style of withdrawal, and what has worked in the past from me with him, that I should continue to initiate periodic contact and "check-in's", to make periodic invitations to do things together, to include him in family activities, and to continue to be warm, loving, and patient. It seems like when I have contact with H, that this has been slowly (baby steps) working. H needs reassurance and appreciation, that is clear. He was hurt by me, and although he has not articulated all of the details of his feelings, I do know he feels his emotional needs were not met in the M, and he did not realize that before the A, and it is that which he is worried about. So isn't my task according to DB and DR to discover those needs and to begin to try to meet them with any and all possible time we can have together? Now, when he gets caught up in work, he almost completely dissappears on me. This was true before also, just harder now that he's not home to sleep. He has no other social life other than phone calls to OW - it is work, TV, sleep. While I was on my trip in Canada, we spoke many times by phone. He has begun to express anger/upsets and concerns about me with me, which is new behavior and good I think. He was warm, loving and more responsive than usual when I returned from my trip and saw him last Friday. However, he has initiated no contact with me since then, he is just working. My D who spoke with him while I was gone says he is "on the fence" about our marriage and what to do. Huge parts of our marriage he loves and appreciates. But has realized he "wasn't happy". Actually said to her that his "emotional needs" were not getting met. I believe he blames me for the fact that he was not happy. Seems to have no concept right now about the fact that a couple can work on a M or that I could change or be different or that I would like to try to meet his emotional needs or that I might be able to, or vice versa (and probably is afraid he can't meet my needs) - and certainly has no concept at present that he is responsible to generate his own happiness and I mine. I see this as a product of his MLC and the current A, both of which I expect will pass with time. He definitely had the concept of self-responsibility at one time - when we got married we were heavily involved in personal growth work together that supported the concepts of personal responsibility and integrity to the Nth degree. I understand time and patience are my best assets in this situation, as he may have an "awakening" since a lack of integrity and the resigned "can't do anything about it" and blaming are uncharacteristic of him as far as I have known. He is not a liar or a bad person -he couldn't keep the A secret any longer - it was killing him; yet OW has no intention of revealing to her H. I think he won't settle for that kind of back door arrangement for too long, his self esteem and integrity is already suffering and there is a lot of shame he is struggling with.

I am not "sending him flowers" when he can't stand to see or speak with me. I am trying to give him space and have detached a fair amount during the last 3 months (although detachment remains a work in progress for me ). But working on a shared project, one that we both have financial stakes in, that involves my D's well being as well? I see participation with that as me being cooperative and helpful, which are good DR traits, especially since that is not his current perception of who I am, or who I was in our M. Last time the reponse to my helpfulness on the house garnered many steps in my direction and a good connection between us. He has forgotten how helpful and cooperative I can be - shouldn't I make periodic efforts to remind him?

So what is it about my situation that has you see it differently? It seems your suggestions to me on my thread have been to pull back, to pull out, to withdraw myself, which instintively does not feel right in my sitch with my H. DB coach Chuck indicated it was not appropriate for my sitch either based on H's style of communication and way of managing stress/hurt. Or am I misreading your message? Was it intended for RB and not me?

Looking forward to your further thoughts.

[oldtimer]

The link is clearly to an extreme case. The similarity I see is when doing "nice things" for another person backfires because it involves giving them less space then they are in word and action expressing they want. To me, it would seem that helping out when you weren't invited and your offer was not warmly accepted is like that. This is different than inviting your H to family things, more like "sending flowers."

Best,
Oldtimer

[Erin]

PL
I generally think that advice based on personal experience is so-so at best, but I wanted to offer this, becuase our sitches are starting to look uncannily alike: twice when H has said "if you want to" about a joint activity, it has been a total disaster. I see now that he was unable to just say "no, I want to go on business trip alone even though it's your birthday and S2's birthday." He knows he would have looked like an A$$. So, instead, he put the decision on me, and since I can always rally for a good time, I thought he could too. Really, some of the worst damage to our R was done during that birthday trip. He has done it another time as well, and now I've learned.

Just remember this - a common MLC thing is for H's to make thier spouses push them away so they don't have to feel bad about it.

My H doesn't remember that he was short tempered and mean and didn't even say happy birthday to me one time this year - he only remembers a horrible trip and thinks of it as a reason why we can't stay married. So, step cautiously around your H if you show this weekend. I do hear your thoughts about showing him how helpful and capable you are, and I hope I am wrong if you do go. I just couldn't help but put up another warning flag for you. I wish I'd been able to heed mine.

Are you going to see him again before you have to decide? Since we can't believe anything we hear, maybe you could judge by his body language and actions about whether he really wants company, or just wants to work (and maybe work some things out in his head - that seems to be how most men do think best in my experience.)

all my best
erin

[PositivelyListening]

Hi OT, Thanks for clarifying. I wrote you a response this morning, but it disappeared after I saw it posted on the board - weird. Anyway, I appreciate your concern and words of caution. Here's what I decided to do:

I spoke with D and she really wanted me to come down this weekend anyway, as she is stressing about all of the transitions she is facing (graduation, moving, finding a new job etc.) so she has plenty for me to help with if H needs space and/or doesn't want my help on the completion of the house project. So I got a dog sitter for the weekend (so I wouldn't add his bouncy self to the already overflowing student household) and I got a hotel room for 2 nights, rather than staying at my D's, so I could make sure I had built in some self-care and TLC for me. H called me today at 5 pm and asked me if I was going with him tomorrow, he had plans to leave bright and early tomorrow am. Obviously whether I went with him or not was not of particular concern to him. I can not leave until tomorrow night, as I have 4 appointments tomorrow, so I told him I was going this weekend but would drive separately. Too bad about the extra gas he said. But I think that gives us both lots of freedom about whatever we want to do and how much time we spend together while we are there. I told H I had rented a hotel room, and he was welcome to stay with me, or to sleep on the couch at D's as he did last weekend - whatever he wants to do. He did not say one way or the other on the phone, and I am never sure if he is reacting to the fact that I didn't assume he would want to stay with me, and he wanted to feel more invited, or if he doesn't want to tell me I don't want to stay with you. It seems like he has more discomfort and guilt telling me he wants to see me and spend time with me, than the other way around. But he is hard to figure. Anyway, I told him I would call him on the way down tomorrow evening with an ETA, and he could meet me at the hotel if he wanted to, which is only 1 mile away from D's house. He seems to be fighting a cold and I am sure he is working too much right now. But his choices, oh well. I have decided to be totally happy whether he stays with me or I stay alone at the hotel. Both scenarios have their advantages.

I must admit that it is hard to be around his constant ambiguity. He has a lot of difficulty saying what he wants, at least to me. Of course, maybe he just doesn't know, and has to think about it for a while. He seems much warmer, friendlier and connected to me when we spend more time together. So since I have seen him very little during the past month, he feels farther away and more vague and ambiguous than ever, and I have to constantly self-talk to fight off neediness and hopeful fantasy scenarios, especially since I get very few straight answers from him. Funny thing, I am not sure when he stopped giving me straight answers, but it was definitely well before the "bomb". I just can't remember how long it may have been going on, before the A started or just when it started. Either way, it is hard not to think that everything about the way he is right now is because he is having the A. Unless MLC looks like this whether there is an A or not. I dunno. I don't believe there could be any progress towards our M until he ends the A, though. And if/when he ends the A, then we will have to decide together if we can rebuild, and what we've got to work with. I find all of this rather depressing. I am not sure how I will hold the space for my H for as long as it looks like it could take. But I guess I will know when I know, if I need to give up or move to the "After the Last Resort Technique" or Harley's Plan B. I guess I am feeling not so hopeful about my R with my H tonight. If I had to rely on my H for the juice to keep this M effort going, it would already be all over. I guess that's why we focus on GAL, so we have enough juice of our own to keep anything we want to keep going, going. Tomorrow, I have chiropractic appt and a deep tissue massage, and a lunch with old soccer-buddy friends. All nice for me. I will make sure to take a beach walk with the dog too before I go. I joined Weight Watchers at my work this week, even though I have lost almost everything there was to lose, but I thought I might cap off the last 8 pounds I want to lose, and become a lifetime member so I could finally do that (after 3 rounds of "almost there" in my past) and then I could maintain it for the rest of my life with community support for free. I am proud of my accomplishments so far and if my H never notices me again, well his loss. But because I still love him, I keep hoping that one day he will be able to "see" me.

I have one question , OT. You said:

To me, it would seem that helping out when you weren't invited and your offer was not warmly accepted is like that.

I have read a lot about the MLC behaviors and the "alien" thinking that occurs, and also the addictive nature of an A. To be invited and warmly accepted would be normal behavior for close friends and people I spend time with. But my H does not seem to be his normal self. Are you suggesting I should expect normal behavior from him, and not settle for anything else, even in the throes of MLC and an A? Because, if that's the case, I think we would be divorcing right now. I am thinking he will be different at some point, after the A and after the MLC. So, I just let his ambiguous and less than warm behaviors alone, try to ignore them, make every effort not to show a reaction. He is occasionally warm and inviting, it's just that he's as inconsistent as could be. Your thoughts on that?

[PositivelyListening]

Hi Erin, So nice to hear from you. I always feel comforted by your presence, because I do feel like I can learn a lot from watching your sitch, since it is so similar to mine. My response to OT addresses a lot of what you mentioned to me also. I think you may be right, and I do think I need to be on the look out for whether he needs more space or more reassurance. A month ago it was definitely more reassurance and words of affirmation and appreciation, but that may have changed. I dunno. I think his decision about staying with me at the hotel or not will answer that question pretty clearly, at least for this weekend. We shall see, tomorrow

[grasshopper]

I must admit that it is hard to be around his constant ambiguity. He has a lot of difficulty saying what he wants, at least to me. Of course, maybe he just doesn't know, and has to think about it for a while.

Would you say this has always been the case or just since all this happened? If it has always been the case, how did that affect you? Was it "hard to be around" before?

I ask because I am like your H. It is very hard for me to ask for or talk about what I need from my W, as evidenced by my seeming inability to address our intimacy issues.

Just trying to get you to think more about your sitch (sorry) and maybe help me in the process.

GH

[PositivelyListening]

Hi GH, I think my H is a people pleaser. In the beginning of our R he was a rather quiet, thoughtful person, and not particularly self-expressed. He spends a lot of time alone, at work and in leisure time. My friends who introduced me to him recall that he was somewhat withdrawn and all about work before we met, kind of a driven loner, which is odd because he also has a very playful fun creative side when he is happy and people who know him love him. He can be the one with the funniest and most interesting stories, the best dancer, etc. My friends and I introduced him to some personal growth seminars and we both did some together and separately for 3 or so years, and he really was alive during that time and so was our M. It was an exciting, growthful time. In the 2nd year of our marriage, he began to have some unhealthy expressions of anger towards me (and I had experienced abuse in my past, so it scared me), and we got into counseling together. Resolved the anger issues, but returned to MC in year 4 of our M as it started coming up again. I think he was repressing his feelings, wants and needs, and the resentment was bubbling up. Meanwhile, the seminars and personal growth work that had fed us so well as a couple had fallen by the wayside, as H was working (too much in my opinion) building his business, became president of Kiwanis locally, etc. Approximately 1 year before the A started, it became obvious to me that he was always trying to do what he thought I would want, rather than expressing what he wanted. It was driving me nuts. Partially because he was second guessing me, instead of giving me what I really wanted (which was quality time with him). I probably didn't handle it very well. I brought it up in MC, and it showed up at home when trying to plan to go somewhere for date night etc. He'd answer my "what do you want to do?" question with "what do you want to do?" and rarely if ever would he choose. I would just end up suggesting something finally, and he would say OK, that's fine. We took turns with making plans for a while, but later on he got to the point where he would have no plan, or even forget it was date night. He just was burnt out and wanted to stay home and watch TV and sleep. He was trying to please me because he thought he should, but he had no joy behind it. It felt like living with a burnt out shell of my H. I understand now that much of this behavior is MLC, but I did not know that then. And did I help the situation? Noooo... I made it worse, I am quite sure now. I just didn't realize. I was nagging him to do stuff on the house and with me. I was worried about money. I was very excited about his son coming to live with us, and didn't realize how overwhelmed he was feeling about it. I thought we could conquer anything - I'm a pull up by the boot straps and make it happen kinda gal, and he was having a private melt down. I was very insensitive to his needs, and I was out to lunch about it. PMA tyrant, literally. I have refused to let my family feel negative feelings, I always have a quick remedy, a snap out of it cure. I am fix-it queen. When people need an answer to solve a problem quickly, they come to me - I will know. I can only imagine how much he was silently suffering, and feeling made wrong and powerless and disrespected. I am so sorry about all of that now. The hardest thing is to have these insights about myself, and to have no opportunity to share them with him. Right now, H thinks I will never change. So he is reevaluating whether he wants to continue in our marriage, with all of that fodder in his mind as the reality of what he would have to return to. I know I can do better, I have already made great strides with myself. The insights I have had in relation to who I had been being have shifted me permanently. But of course I am worried my H will run before he ever gets to see it. For me, that is the truly heartbreaking part.

So what was it like for me to have an H who withholds his true feelings? It sucks. When he was sharing himself with me fully (in the beginning years) our R was so powerful and great. Thing is, I know he's in there. And I did my part to have him fall back to his familiar protective stance, with walls and withholds. What I really wanted from my H was for him to tell me what he wanted. I really did (and do) want him to be happy, I have always wanted that. I think he felt like he was telling me, and I wasn't getting it. Which is true, he's not as much of a talker as I am. I needed to listen more, and also read his behaviors more instead of expecting him to speak it always. One of the things he told me after we separated, was that I had an "advantage" when we had a disagreement because I had been an English major in college and he learned English as a second language on his own. Of course, I never felt that he couldn't express himself well - he's articulate, witty and extremely intelligent. But that is information for me that I was not listening well, and bowling him over in our conversations. He didn't feel heard, and finally he gave up.

GH, I am with OT in terms of you expressing yourself and your true desires, wants and feelings. I would get playful about it on occasion (not make it always so heavy - like the lick on the cheek or lifting her up and throwing her on the couch are all good) but truly I would step up being direct related to your feelings and desires. Maybe you also need to find out if she wants to, if she's interested, if she's committed, to working on meeting your needs. My guess is right now, she doesn't even know what your needs and wants are either. But she may not be ready to do anything too big, she may feel like she doesn't have it in her. It could be worthwhile to find out, though. Some things will be temporary adjustments, some things will be permanent things you will need to accept in order to be together, but it seems it is time to start picking away at it. Maybe your goals list for your marriage would be a place to start, and then find out what her goals are and where they intersect. ML 5 x/week? A weekend away without the kids once/mo? Salsa dancing lessons together? Maybe just start with one thing - tell her one thing you want and ask her if she can be committed to that with you. Remember, you don't need to talk about all this, you need to get into action with something - even a shared interest - that will eventually bring you closer. And I say for you, make it something physical.

All I can tell you, is that the few things I did hear from my H, when he told me something he wanted, I took on right away as I really wanted his needs met. But these were usually the small things, safe things for him. I wish more than anything that he had shared his deeper emotional needs instead of becoming increasingly unhappy and eventually having an A. And I wish we had been playing a lot more together, as we got into trouble when our R became all about work. The one thing I didn't listen to, that I really regret, is that he didn't like it when I got angry. I yelled at him. I never acknowledged it as yelling, I said I was being expressive, and coming from an Italian background I justified this and dishonored him. He needed me to speak softly. He would have heard me better, and I believe that his anger wouldn't have been out of control in frustration due to my yelling, if I had managed that behavior sooner. I will never yell at him or anyone again. I had some deep conversations with my D about this also. I was being tolerated, indulged, and humored by everyone in my family, but no one liked it - they were just stuck with it. No more.

I would say that your M is still very vulnerable if you are not calmly and fully self expressing what you want and need. Even if your W can not meet all of them, sharing about it will bring intimacy for you. I miss intimacy with my H more than I can say. It's like having a shadow H instead of a real one. Over time, it was like he was building slowly, steadily, a wall around himself to protect himself, with me outside. I'd love to take a bulldozer to his wall, but he's an escape artist and he'll definitely fly away never to be seen again if I do that! My H has to decide if I'm safe again, those are his issues to explore. All I can do is be committed to being a safe, loving, non-judgemental person he can count on if he decides to trust me again. I will need other things from him, like him sharing himself and his feelings with me again. Hopefully that will come. I pray every day that I will have the opportunity to show him I can be trusted with his feelings.

[PositivelyListening]

I had one of those funny days, where life did not go as planned. I did not go to D's house with H last night because of all the appointments I had today. Well, chiropractor office moved, I forgot that was happening (being out of town and all) hadn't read the postcard with new location - missed that one. IC appt cancelled - family emergency, therapist's brohter died. Massage therapist sick, had to reschedule that for next week too. So much for the big self-care day! But, I had a 2 1/2 hour lunch with old friends from my soccer team - that worked out! We talked about the 5 Love Languages and relationships - they get what I'm doing and are really supportive and talked about their relationships too and how to do preventative maintenance - all good stuff. And the extra time for me today is a bonus in disguise. I will get D's graduation invitations out before I leave town, and do my laundry so I come home on Sunday ready for the new week. Surprise bonus: called H to see how the house project is coming along, did he neead any supplies from here? and to let him know he can check into the hotel before me if he wants to stay w/ me. He was happy for that. He's definitely staying with me at the hotel, hoping I can even get there early enough to have dinner with him too. I know I said I would be OK whether he stayed with me or not, and I would have been. But honestly, I am really happy I am getting some alone time with him because he wants to. I do miss him. And I will DB and take what I get without expectations and manage myself well and have a good time too. I am just a little more excited about the weekend though, than I would have been if he was walled up from me and sleeping on D's couch. I guess that is not surprising. Spending the night in the same bed for two nights is a happy baby step in my book. More later.

[PositivelyListening]

I am home from the weekend at D's house with H, and I am pretty darned pleased with myself and how it went. There were many, many fine moments that have given me a lot of hope that our marriage situation may be beginning to turn around. I say this knowing full well, that after a great weekend together, there could easily be a set back upon next encounter with H. And I say "great" weekend knowing that there are still many unmet needs, many unfulfilled desires. It's just that I saw progress, and I am tuned in enough now to understand that small progress counts a lot, because it really does add up eventually.

H checked into the hotel before I arrived. I was really looking forward to seeing him. He was exhausted from the long days's work, and he had fallen asleep by the time I called when I was about 10 minutes away. I love how one can always choose to see a situation with PMA or not. I arrived late, long drive, no dinner together, H too sleepy to connect the first night is one way to look at it. I chose the other way - H is cute when he's sleepy (and he really was too!) almost more relaxed and open to being with me than he might have been if he was trying to stay wide awake after being tired from a long day. He did a very cute one eye open thing with me for about 1/2 an hour while I got ready for bed, along with a little chatting. He sang me a German sleepy song. And I got to sleep with my H. On a funny note, my H reacts with "sleep walking" if you can call it that, when he eats sugar. He had a lemonade that night and acted out some amazing pantomimes in the middle of the night. Even though we had improved our eating habits a lot when we were analyzing and discovering the cause of these night activities (as some of them were scary - he leaped out of a window in the middle of the night once - and he never remembers any of it). But I was even happy to see one of those moments again that others don't really get to see, and to just be the one who gets to be with him for these private moments. But in the morning, he woke up aloof I would say. I maintained good cheer, and although it didn't feel good to sense the distancing and I wondered how the rest of the weekend would go, I chose to "act as if". Good call

Saturday H worked on the house all day. I helped him some, helped D some (as she is freaking out with tasks left to do - graduating her Masters degree program, moving and looking for a new job - all of which happens in May) and ran some errands to keep things going for both of them. I provided H with loads of appreciation for everything he was doing, and made myself useful particularly with things H doesn't do for himself but really needs/wants, such as running out for food, bringing him fresh bottles of water, etc. Packed a bunch of stuff, cleaned the garage. I did crawl around in the attic, and did a few other things that he didn't expect from me. Wired all the plugs and switches, and installed a light fixture. One new thing: I am currently wearing a "step counter", trying to reach 10,000 steps per day. Both H and D got a kick out of this, and want to "play" too. My attention to fitness of late is definitely a 180. I am looking thinner and cuter, and got some mileage out of getting so much help and attention from the guys working at Home Depot when I went without H - I tell H about these things but also about how they are gently let down by me when I mention "my husband..." H was beginning to perk up towards me by end of the day Saturday - seemed to be noticing and appreciating me more as the day progressed. D decided to take a break from stressing and have a late dinner with us. On the way from the hotel to D's house (with less than a minute before arrival), I took a risk. I told H that I understood that he was enjoying where he was living right now (the rented room where he says he can "just be alone" most of the time which he says he likes) but that I remained committed to our marriage, and that I knew that he continued to have some things to work out in his life, and that he didn't need to feel pressured by me at all as I was not in a rush, but that I continued to hold the space that he would return to our home and our marriage. I told him that I was looking forward to a time when he could tell me what it was for him that had made our marriage (and me) so difficult for him, and that I wanted more than anything to be able to address those things and work on making our relationship better and meeting his needs. That I really wanted that opportunity, and that I thought I deserved that chance.

Well, he squeezed my hand, petted my leg, told me how much he appreciated it. Said I did deserve it, and squeezed my hand again. And then off to dinner we went. Lots of laughter, joking and fun with D. His mom called on the cell from Germany while we were there too, and so we all got to talk to her while we were together. His whole family is rooting for our reunion, but it is subtle - I feel supported, and they say nothing to pressure H. Definitely a family re-bonding night. We saw a film afterwards which had a lot of relationship issues and infidelity issues and lack of self-love issues in it. H didn't talk about it too much that night, but it did make an impact as he brought it up 3 times the following day. Told me upon going to bed in the hotel how it was much better that I came down to D's house with him, and how glad he was that I was there. Lots more cuddling, hair stroking and eye contact than the previous night. But also a fair amount of quiet and far away staring off into space. H looks to me that he still has much healing to do - I must be VERY patient and not expect more than what shows up as available. I say this because I miss ML VERY much. So I must do a fair amount of positive self talk so as not to become openly frustrated, demanding, or needy. Sometimes H is cuddling, sometimes he is with his back to me on the far side of the bed. It needs to all be OK right now. There is a lot of progress. I hold the space that one day he will want to be my lover again.

This morning, getting ready to check out, I took another risk and asked for something. In our marriage when I have been stressed or worried, I have asked H to reassure me that "everything will be OK". It is like a little happy understanding between us and the reason and explanation does not have to be given. So, I was feeling the ending of our weekend, no ML, back to work all day and then separate homes, and packing up I was getting a little anxious. H didn't know why or what or anything as I caught it internally right away, but I just asked if he could tell me... and I didn't even have to finish my sentence, he was right there giving me a huge and comforting hug, telling me that I really didn't need to worry, that everything was going to be OK, and it was wonderful - he knew what to do even better or as good as always, I really felt it, he really wanted to say it and meant it, and at that moment we had a moment. I am so grateful for the small things.

Another breakthrough - H saw I was reading the 5 Love Languages, and was interested and curious. I told him I had taken the quiz in the back, and that I had also pretended I was him and taken the quiz as if I knew what he might say - but that I would love to see if I was right about him. H wanted to take the quiz and was interested in the results. It turns out I was mostly right about him - he is primarily Words of Affirmation, with Acts of Service a really close second. Gifts was a really close third and I never would have guessed that. I thought Personal Touch would be much higher for him rather than gifts - so that was new news. I explained to H about me being a Quality Time person and tears welled up for me as I tried to explain that, and what that meant. Something about telling H and realizing the dissapointment I had felt in the past or the fear that my needs might never be met by him brought the emotion to the surface. I also explained how I had complained and gotten a little depressed since this was an important growing unmet need in our M. (I am aware that this was heightened during the time of the secret A, but I did not mention that part) He said, "oh that's why being here on this weekend can work for you too!" I am not sure that he is interested at all yet in considering how HE might meet my needs. But that's OK, I know we will have to have that discussion at some point if he decides and communicates that he wants to work on our marriage. Meanwhile, I am working on meeting my own needs. However, it does seem like he is testing the water related to working on our M in terms of his behavior, which is good. Somewhere in this conversation, I also said that I had realized "a little late" what his love needs were. And he said, "well it's not TOO late".

So I am feeling pretty darn good about my DBing efforts of the past few months and the mini steps towards M progress. I am also feeling hopeful that H may be peeking out of the MLC tunnel, as he asked me to remind him to call his son this weekend too. His S12 has been refusing to speak to him (I believe this is because H had the A and S12 figured it out and didn't like it - but this has not been spoken). Two months ago, H stopped the weekly calling to S12 since he continually refused to speak with him on the phone. H couldn't deal with it (or anyone else or any other upsets at that point). Yet this weekend, he decided to try again. (He remembered on his own too). No luck with S12 who still refuses to talk with him. However, I told H that I was proud of him that he had made the call, and that I could only imagine how hard it was, but that it was wonderful that he hadn't given up. H thought that he might write a letter - but wants to do it when he can bring some humor back in. His family always uses lightness and humor to solve difficult issues (or maybe all issues). My family world uses a fair amount of emotion and straight talk. But I must allow H to find his own way on this. Humor is looking better and better to me at times too, when a long time ago I used to think it was inappropriate avoidance. I also told H that I had been thinking that I would like to write a letter to his S12 too, if he was OK with that, and he really liked it that I wanted to do that and told me to please go right ahead. I know I can not "fix" H's relationship with his S12 - they must do that. But I think H is now trusting me that I will present him in a good light to others, and is trusting and appreciating what I might offer to the situation in terms of support and balance. Which is a big turn around.

I kept the weekend as light as possible. I am encouraged. Even if it gets rough again (inevitable, right?) I still see slow steady progress. Also, I saw no visible signs of contact with the OW this weekend. There has been no word of her to me in ages. Just the occasional far away look in his eyes that lets me know it ain't over yet. I guess I don't need to be too concerned about that - right? I'm not bringing the A up unless he wants to talk about it. Right now I am just feeling grateful.

Is there anything else I should be looking for (or preparing for)?