I appreciate your thoughts OT and they are certainly not without merit. I'm looking at this through my own prism, of course, like we all do, and trying to apply it to my sitch where appropriate. This is obviously not the same as PL's sitch, but it's the only way I can process! hehe
Quote: Personally I think there is a big difference between a spouse that is still at home and cheating, in which case it is still a shared home, and a spouse that has moved out and is coming into one's own home to practice infidelity.
You are quite right. I didn't look at it in that context. In that perspective, if I understand you correctly, her H has his own place and should practice his infidelity in his own space and not bring it to her like that. I can definitely agree.
Of course, however, there comes nitty-gritty details that serve to exacerbate this problem, wouldn't you agree? Details like, it's both their computer, and they have an agreement to share its use still from the sounds of things. Could it get ugly for PL if she puts her foot down and says, the PC is now 'mine' and I will regulate its use. Even in the pretext of these boundaries which I can now agree with, I am not sure if we are getting anywhere nearer our goal of reconciliation.
It will be interesting to hear PL's view on this, as only she has the intimate knowledge to forsee what effect this would have. For now I'll just say I'll agree up to a point
Quote: It hurts the R and oneself not to enforce boundaries. She set a reasonable boundary that H not engage in activities related to infidelity in her home. He violated that boundary.
First of all I agree and disagree with that statement. I disagree because the R is already hurt because the boundaries of marriage were ignored and crossed. However, I know from my own experience, I understand the need to set boundaries and the importance of their enforcement. However, I take the tack that it's how it is enforced that makes it a reasonable boundary, not the boundary itself.
Removing the power of choice from her H I don't see as healthy in any circumstance. Recall in my sitch that I indeed establish a boundary regarding my W calling and receiving calls from TOM. Not appropriate! But I did so not by screening all her calls, I just said what I felt--"I am deeply hurt when you are receiving calls and I feel this is highly inappropriate. Do what you will, but know that this hurts me." I can't emphasize enough that the first signs of controlling behavior will have him running to the OW even more. He may feel 'controlled' by her communicating her feelings but it would be due to his own internal pressures of guilt and remorse, and not any direct action against him by her.
He isn't stupid. He knows he's breaking boundaries. He wouldn't be hiding it in spreadsheets and estimates like he has been. That takes effort. Energy. He's investing energy to cover his tracks. The boundary is there, it is simply not being enforced. That leaves two choices: a) Take away his power of choice by say, selling the computer, or b) telling him how his boundary crossing is affecting you emotionally and letting him be responsible for those emotions. I still opt for (b) in this case.
Quote: Protecting oneself financially when one's spouse is out of control is not reacting out of anger, it is taking the situation at face value (no one knows what will happen) and acting responsibly.
Once again it is hard to argue against your point. Personal finances are all about risk and I'm not going to say anything against anyone who wishes to protect him or herself from that risk.
Quote: Her H is going to visit another country to visit OW. This is a very significant expense, emotionally and financially. There is nothing wrong with her H feeling as though he is putting his marriage at risk by doing this. He needs to understand the stakes.
Maybe I haven't understood properly. PL, are you supporting him financially?? Who is funding these escapades? Are his contributions to your joint investments equitable and fair?
If he is still being fair and equitable to the investments you have agreed upon, and you aren't carrying a financial burden that otherwise he would help with if he wasn't spending on the travel, then I don't see how you are any more at risk than if he was spending that equivalent amount on something more akin to a MLC--boats, new car, plasma screens, etc...If it's his money and he's meeting his financial responsibility then what he does with that may be hurtful behavior, but not putting you at risk.
I don't know the details. It's important to keep the argument relevant. I wouldn't go to the drastic steps of changing accounts and moving assets and cutting him out financially until he is being irresponsible to his commitments or is mooching off you to continue his affair.
Quote: More important, she needs to have a safe space during this process and my suggestion that she secure her household is related to that, not a way of punishing her H. This should be about her, not him. She needs to accept that he may not return and do what it takes so that she can be happy and secure not matter what happens. Giving someone access to one's own home--it is not his home now--to practice infidelity does nothing to help in terms of that goal.
I totally see that this is about her and not him. But let me speak to that. What is her interests? Her primary stated goal is to reconcile in her marriage. To get closer to that stated goal, it won't help (in my opinion) to reinforce any notion that he is being punished, as it will only make reconciliation more difficult.
It certainly DOES sound like I'm proposing she be just a doormat to be walked over. But that's not what I'm suggesting. This man is carrying two lives, yes. However, he is not physically abusive, and as far as I know does not have a drug/alcohol problem. They live separate, but her home is open to him to come home permanently. Since she has not in direct words (as far as I know anyways) told him to his face that his actions of communicating with her and doing things for her in her home tears her up inside and hurts her terribly, I would definitely advise giving this a chance to work first before going to that extreme.
Yes, PL, you definitely established the boundary early on. You told him to take all the stuff that had anything to do with her with him when he moved out and told him that he was not welcome communicating with her in the home. Nothing wrong with that. But that was all it was--established rule. NOW, as the case is currently, he has violated that established rule and I would strongly recommend you tell him how it makes you FEEL rather than telling him that he's crossed the line. He may get defensive (probably will) because he will probably be indignant saying he hasn't done so. Let that deflect off you and don't react. Just say, that regardless, it completely turns you into a wreck and hurts you deeply.
He may think more strongly and longer next time before he does. IF that doesn't seem to reinforce that boundary, I'd THEN consider something more drastic to protect yourself.
Changing the keys seems so harsh to me. To me, you change your keys after you've had your keys stolen or you have a relationship actually END. I would agree that one can draw metaphors here to both those scenarios, but I truly believe that one can achieve the same or better results without resorting to such harsh measures.
Anyways...I appreciate your further thoughts OT. I'm not sold on them but you helped. I think I'd like to hear from PL first before I go further because I am starting to see lots of my own fixed assumptions creeping into the mix.
