Life goes forward

[frank_D]

The last thing you need to worry about is where you will meet grown up, decent women. Besides, haven't you figured out that we're all ON THIS BOARD!? DUH! We're the ones that either have faced or are facing life on life's terms and told it where to stick it and we will make our own happiness from here on out with nothing but the grace of God thank you very much. (Can I get an "Amen", ladies?)

How do I get their phone numbers just in case?

[frank_D]

ok, I'm going to start short entries keeping updates about my actions and her responses. As Becca, Amy, Spitfire has pointed out, she needs to lose me and the stability I represent. I am supportive and generous. And, I am attractive in the ways she likes.

so there are 2 choices. (1) Make her move out. She says she wants to by summer, she will supposedly have enough money to do it. The likelyhood of her growing her business that quickly is slim to none. In 3 months she'd have to increase her revenue by at least 12 clients. 3 new ones per week and of course, the current ones have to come too.
(2) Detach in a very serious way and when she talks aboutmoving out, ask how you can help her do it. This method could make her feel like she's losing someone important.

So tonite I stayed away from the house when W was around. When I came home she was pleasant. She had just put D10 to bed and walked past me on the stairs, looked at me and smiled. I smiled back. I went into my room and put on the pajamas and did NOT go downstairs.

So now I hear her watching TV, something we have done nightly. I am staying here in my room and journaling. Detach and ye shall be free. She hasn't any reason to think I'm mad at her . This morning she asked me if 'something is wrong' and I said Nope, I'm all good.

She can watch tv alone. This is the way it was in the beginning of this whole thing, the first 2 months we did not go in the same room together. Now she's comfortable and so am I. But I wont go. The balance of energy has to change.

Alpha Male.

[CMNM]

This morning she asked me if 'something is wrong' and I said Nope, I'm all good.

Now, that's the way it's done.

Frank, I've been thinking about your sitch because I, too, struggled with detaching. It seems both you and I just had one goal in mind, and that was to hear that our spouses wanted to be with us. After that, we'd worry about just how to do that.
So, I have a question for you:
If your wife came to you today and said, "Frank, I love you. I want to be with you," BUT nothing else changed,
how long would you last in the relationship? Be honest here, Frank.
You see, for so long I waited for some sign that my H was going to check back in. I thought that if his ring went back on that all would be good. Would it? No. So many other things have to change.
I feel the same way about you. So much, other than just the words that your wife wanted to make things work would have to change. They aren't, and she has no motive to make that happen. I think that it is awful and selfish for her to expect that you will just stay status quo until summer. She has friends, she has a dad...can't she move in with them?
O.K., you may not be ready for that step. But, when you doubt what you are doing, please ask yourself if this is really what you want for the rest of your life. You deserve so much more, and I don't think that you really believe that.

Keep Strong,
Pam

[frank_D]

So much, other than just the words that your wife wanted to make things work would have to change. They aren't, and she has no motive to make that happen.

True. The woman she was 'acting like' 4 weeks ago when we shared intimacy and cuddle time together was a partially changed woman. If we were to get together that would be good, and I WOULD make sure she kept on her path or growth, and WE worked on having a marriage.

The woman she is TODAY, well, back to vacant most of the time - or angry. Afraid to 'release' her sexual energy with me (or anyone, she says) because then she gets comfortable. Same with closeness. What to believe?

Todays version of W wouldn't ask to come back. Period. The version from 4 weeks ago might have, and it would have a lot of potential to work. So, I know she has to change quite a bit AGAIN. We were so close.

I think that it is awful and selfish for her to expect that you will just stay status quo until summer. She has friends, she has a dad...can't she move in with them?

Well, no. Not in this area. At least nobody who I can think of.

O.K., you may not be ready for that step. But, when you doubt what you are doing, please ask yourself if this is really what you want for the rest of your life. You deserve so much more, and I don't think that you really believe that.

I think you are right. Here is what I believe. I think I'm too old (47) not really great looking, but pretty decent. short, a bit out of shape. Still very very emotionally weak at times. Still struggling to beat depression and still getting beat up. I

In the back of my mind I don't see anyone else wanting someone like me. At least no woman of quality. After all, if W rejects me after all I've done then who would find me desirable? I can look at the work I've done on myself and I KNOW for a fact that it has been genuine, and heartfelt. At least I can say that. I'm a good man and probably once I am 'rid' of W so I don't see her all the time I'll slowly feel better about myself. But being a single dad will also impact my life.

It isn't that I WANT my W back so I can 'feel better' and not have to be looking for someone else. She's just such a special woman, to me, to everyone she touches. just gone now. Glimpses of the real her now and then hurt the most.

Detaching helps, because I don't talk to her much or see her so it's like she is 'gone'.

I hate to be so depressed and down because it isn't helping me to see a 'great' future. Just some more months of pain, followed by being a single dad.

But, I can't blame her for not seeing what I see. I've been studying and working on relationships. She has been trying to figure out who she is.

[CMNM]

In the back of my mind I don't see anyone else wanting someone like me. At least no woman of quality.

Frank, let me gently ask you this:
Is your wife (the woman she is right now) a woman of "quality?"

I understand you are fighting hard to keep her because of who she once was. Frank, there are no guarantees that that woman is coming back anytime soon, if ever. If you were to list out the qualities of your W, as she is NOW, can you imagine scanning that list and thinking, "now that's the one for me?"
I don't think you would. So, all you can do is quit fighting for that woman. What you are saying by doing that is "this is the best I deserve."

None of us want to hear that there will be others out there who will love us for who we are, because we don't want to give up on this dream. So, I won't go there.

But, I can't blame her for not seeing what I see. I've been studying and working on relationships. She has been trying to figure out who she is.

Bingo. She is nowhere near where you are. Only time and space can get her there. I know you know this, but I also know how hard it is to let go. I won't lecture you on that one; I know you have this realization and are struggling to put it into practice.

You know, something just struck me here. I don't mean this disrespectfully, either. You seem so sincere and like such a nice man, so I have no doubt that the woman you are fighting for is a woman of quality. However, you said 2 things that don't go together for me. You said
A. She is a special woman to everyone she touches.
B. She has nowhere to go, no friends that you know of to stay with.

Now, I live in the real world, so I know that it isn't easy for a middle-aged woman to find a place to live--after all, most people our age have their own lives going on. However, I do think it would be a lot easier for a woman as special as you describe.
Frank, are you guilty of looking at your W through rose-colored glasses?

I don't mean to lecture you. I only want to help. I will leave you with this, and I am sure that Amy will agree:

When you think you do not want to be with your spouse, the more they tell you they love you or show love for you, the more you get it into your head that you are "safe" to feel this way. After all, if you change your mind later on, you still have that safety net. You don't even have to worry about what will happen in the future. All you see are two positives:
1. I will move on without my H and be happy
2. I will pick up where I left off with my H, no harm done.

I am not saying it is rational thought, but who ever said that people are always rational?

[frank_D]

Is your wife (the woman she is right now) a woman of "quality?"

I think she is. She doesn't want to hurt anyone but she doesn't want to be married. She takes care of the kids and never says anything mean or disparaging to me. She looks to me to be her 'best friend'. It's all hard to believe.

BUT, I guess I would also have to say that her behavior re: OM, where she pretty much ignored any feelings for our kids and of course me, was not an indicator of a quality person. I also feel that she is still in that 'numb' place.

So, her 'humanity' is intact. Her selfishness is stronger than it has been in the past.

would you say "that's the one for me?"
I don't think you would. So, all you can do is quit fighting for that woman. What you are saying by doing that is "this is the best I deserve."

Yeah. I think another way to put it is 'could I trust her not to do this again?'. My counselor calls it 'running off to join the circus'. She has to get it out of her system and she will either 1) get it out, and see what kind of man she left or 2) meet a very nice man who is similar to me in some ways but fulfills needs that I just can't do.

She can't stay 'out there' forever. She's eventually going to land somewhere. AmyC keeps saying over and over how similar W is to her sitch. And Amy landed ready to go home. I need faith.

You said
A. She is a special woman to everyone she touches.
B. She has nowhere to go, no friends that you know of to stay with.

Now, I live in the real world, so I know that it isn't easy for a middle-aged woman to find a place to live--after all, most people our age have their own lives going on. However, I do think it would be a lot easier for a woman as special as you describe.

most of her 'single' friends live anhour drive away so it wouldn't be practical. Everyone else is married with kids. It would be very awkward for them.

Frank, are you guilty of looking at your W through rose-colored glasses?

Somewhat. I see her flaws, and I see her goodness. And even SHE admits there is a deep connection between us. That's hard to ignore.

After all, if you change your mind later on, you still have that safety net. You don't even have to worry about what will happen in the future. All you see are two positives:
1. I will move on without my H and be happy
2. I will pick up where I left off with my H, no harm done.

Yeah, and I know for a fact she has a lot of fear of being 'on her own'. Bet she also has a lot of determination to do it. I think that was what really ended our 'intimacy week' a month ago - the fear that she would not pursue that goal, that she would stay with me instead. It seems really important to her and she has turned off her feelings for me.

And yes, I know I need to let her go. It is a struggle. One day at a time.

[BeingMe]

I have to ask - what is a woman of quality? We all have our hang-ups, our baggage. Is a quality woman, someone who has dealt with it, and is confident within herself, and is a whole person despite problems, and such? I would think so! But, you were worried about your looks, height, being out of shape. Would a quality woman worry about these things, or would she see you as a person, and not define you by your looks? Or, do you see a quality woman as someone who is fit, healthy, pretty, financially stable, etc. Don't mean to seem as if I am being confrontational, but I heard this phrase on one of Dr. Phil's shows, and I wondered what they meant, since it seemed the 'geeky' guys were more focused on looks than personality.

Be yourself, Frank, and don't focus on what you think are your shortcomings. Stop putting yourself down. You know you are a good person, so what more can there be. It is probably way too early to be thinking about new relationships, IMHO, anyway. As I said, have fun, and it won't hurt to get yourself fit (helps with PMA), and healthier, for your D's sake, if not for yourself.

[frank_D]

I was reading some of my posts from around Feb7. By then W had ended her affair for a couple weeks already and was hurt because she knew she made a bad choice.

I didn't know that for sure at the time. In fact I thought it was getting more serious.

jan 31 I said on the board " Getting back to 'disconnecting', it is abundantly clear that me not detaching or disconnecting is holding ME back. My feelings of being tired of fighting are all because I have spent the past 3 months holding us all together, and W has been taking from me STILL. It's time to stop, and give to me now. C says that I MUST detach because I'm still giving W the energy and support she needs while she lives in La La land. And it's draining ME. It has to stop because I can't move forward till it does."

Then for about 4-5 days W had some financial realities thrown at her by me. She had some emotional moments and I gave her a hug once or twice. Also told he I didn't need her to survive. I was detaching very well. But at the time OM was also ending so the feelings she had were not about our relationship. During this week she was flirting with me from time to time. It seemed odd but I kept detached. She then had a real breakdown and I helped her through it. It took the last of my energy.

A few days later, we had sex. Then for about 5 days after that she blew me off. I went away for 3 days and when I got back, and for about almost 2 week period on and off we did it every other day at least, and we spent time every nite sitting together and cuddling.

AmyC said then the reason W would come back was:

"The tenderness you show her, the respect you give her, the faith you have in her, the patience you have had, the dignity, the cute ways you tease each other, the playfulness, the history....the healing...the hope...that's what got you where you were yesterday with your wife, Frank. And that's what is going to turn her heart back to you. And I think she is going to find out that she has loved you all along."

Becca said then:

"Frank, your marriage is on the road to recovery. I think you could feel comfortable moving over to Piecing now, I'm that sure of it. I felt that about you from the first time you posted. You were so sincere in your DBing and your love was so deep that I knew you'd do this. Your "calm and collectedness" continues to amaze me and it is a matter of time until your W recommits."

And it seemed true.

Then about Feb 28 she went away overnite. She kissed me when she left. And that was the end. Since then she has been emotionally vacant when she's around me. Over time she has been reading her 'California Divorce' book from time to time, and has told me she plans to move out by summer.

So, here I am now. I'm staying at my office as much as possible so I don't feel her or see her. I am making a plan for life without her since the short interlude we had wasn't enough to change this runaway trains course. I'm cleaning up MY bedroom, got some new sheets, comforter. Stuff I like that Becca helped me find. I haven't spent any evening time with W in two nites. It'll be the same tonite. She has asked me if "I'm ok" and I smile and say I am perfectly fine.

A few minutes ago D15 called me on my cell and was laughing and said I needed to come home because Mom was 'biting her'. They were being playful and I heard W laugh in the background. D15 wanted her to go to the store and Mom wanted D15 to go with her but D15 was whiney and didn't want to go.

So they were fighting like little girls.

It's good to hear them have positive interaction. And I DID tell D15 before I left she could call me anytime if she needed me, and if it was important enough to her I would come right home.

I told her to put W on the phone and told her to 'behave, or I'll come home and spank you!". She gave me an annoyed "oh you think so" and started to complain about D15 not doing what she tells her to do. It kind of went back and forth, I would talk to one or the other about why the other wasn't doing what they wanted. Finally I had to let them go because they were being too silly. It was nice to hear the playfulness. I miss that in our house.

Well, time to 'act as if' I'm moving on. Cut W off from my emotional self as much as possible. See what happens next. I'm thinking that I should stop dressing in jeans and polo shirts, wear slacks, look like a 'real man'. I started that 'look' when W first left but didn't stay with it.

I should get used to it so I can be attractive to women. No matter what happens that will be important.

[AmyC]

AmyC said then the reason W would come back was:

"The tenderness you show her, the respect you give her, the faith you have in her, the patience you have had, the dignity, the cute ways you tease each other, the playfulness, the history....the healing...the hope...that's what got you where you were yesterday with your wife, Frank. And that's what is going to turn her heart back to you. And I think she is going to find out that she has loved you all along."

Frank,

I still stand by those comments I made in February.
She just needs to have a bucket of reality thrown on her and she needs to "rough it" for a little while WITHOUT your love and support.
She needs to be able to see what her world is like without you in it (except in relation to the kids).

I still think she'll come to the same conclusion in time.

Amy

[frank_D]

I still stand by those comments I made in February.
She just needs to have a bucket of reality thrown on her and she needs to "rough it" for a little while WITHOUT your love and support.
She needs to be able to see what her world is like without you in it (except in relation to the kids).

I still think she'll come to the same conclusion in time.

Amy

I know you do, and I appreciate it. It's just a commentary by me on how she has SEEN the tenderness and love yet goes from one extreme to the other extreme then back again. You, Becca, everyone thought she was on the right track, that she WAS seeing that I am a wondeful man. Then BOOM! Something changed in her. I keep thinking 'what the hell is wrong with her?' Does she have us all fooled?

I'm wondering out loud if it will ever change once and for all.

Now I'm working on me. She's going to no longer get the feeling from me that she has my love and support. I said that two months ago, but then let myself get hurt by thinking she was coming back. It's hard to do and it hurts to think she'll possibly never see it, but I have to save me or there won't be anything to 'come back' to.

Thanks Amy.