Life goes forward

[BeingMe]

Sorry to hear you're still waiting for some outcome. It can be so frustrating. I would suggest you keep trying to keep a detached distance, with the odd inspiration, like the hug you gave her. Keeping her off balance may keep her guessing, and spark an interest. Kind of being mysterious.

[frank_D]

I'm sorry it looks like you may have to wait 'til Tuesday to know what happened today. Perhaps you will get some further enlightenment over the weekend.
HEY! Stranger things have happened .

Amy

Yeah, I am just in a pity party right now because I got myself all worked up because of the 'moving forward' comment the other day. Now I'm scared that she talked it over with Counselor and has made a decision to do it now, and it's bringing her some comfort that she can move forward.

Of course, ALL of that was in MY head. Her comment about 'moving forward' the other day was part of a general rant about how she doesn't feel good being home, she feels better out on her massage seminars. She's frustrated.

It's the not knowing that bugs me. I DO KNOW that Councilor wouldn't bring up Divorce at all if W didn't. I made this up in my mind.

Here is my rant: Why am I not getting something, anything, for all the good I have done? I have done so much and all I ask is for her eyes to open and see. I'm the one who was there for her after she realized how much she was used by OM, after her dad pretty much called her a loser, after she had no confidence in herself, and her ability to make her massage business really work.

I picked her up off the bathroom floor, pulled her out of her pain and sadness and made her feel loved and good. Even after all the hurt she has done to me. I was there for her when we had our week of intimacy, even though she cried sometimes during sex because she felt she had been used, even though she needed me to hold her so she could feel safe. Even though she told Counselor she ALWAYS feels safe when she's with me. And then she turned it off like a faucet.

I know BECCA, she didn't use me for sex, it was ME she wanted, not just SOMEONE to be close to.

I'm her biggest fan when she's feeling down about her business. She knows she can turn to me for anything if it get's bad enogh for her. I take the lead in our family life and support the kids when they need me to be strong for them.

Yet she wants to get away, to keep me at arms length. Yo be free. To give ME nothing in return. Ok, that's unconditional love, but when is it abuse of my goodness? Or am I just stupid? Or is she just selfish? Where is the woman I married? The good heart, the pure light in her soul.

When does she decide that I'm a pretty good choice for a husband and she can be happy with me. Or is it that she can't be happy with me? She just has to go now. I was fun and all that but I'm not the one for her any more. Is that it?

I am not getting my needs met. None, Zero, NaDa. Like Becca said to me, "it's hard when you're all alone, nobody to give you a hug, no shoulder to cry on". Well, I'm all alone.

I need to cry and shake and wail and let go of the stuff I have been absorbing for 4 weeks. I will find a way. I hate it when this happens to me. Then I can't be there for others.

I'm sorry. This cycle is so stupid. I wish I hadn't fallen into that depression over the years so I would be my stronger self right now. I really NEED ME right now. Where am I?

I need to be loved.

I'm glad I got this out. I'm going for a walk now.

[frank_D]

ok, now I'm back to a grounded place. I went for a fast power walk and thought things out. If she was going to push the divorce she'd be acting really weird - nervous or uncomfortable - because that would mean she would have to assert herself to ME. If anything, that would be the hardest thing for her to do. Standing up to Frank is like the 'holy grail' of her Assertiveness 'training'. It isn't that I'm threatening, it's that I have a strong presence when I'm not emotionally destroying myself.

I also got in touch with the 'wild man' inside and pulled as much energy as I could from that place inside us - us men - where we are alpha and primal. So when she came home from her massages I was 'better'. I needed to rant earlier and now I am mostly grounded.

So she came home around 9, D10 was in bed and I was putting away my laundry. She walked to D10's room across the hall and said goodnite, then walked across the hall and stood in my door, looking tired and a little needy. She said she had done 5 massages today and was beat.

I walked over towards her to stand in front of her and I told her how sad I was for her being so beat. She looked at me with her sad face and said 'ok, hug'. Then she hugged me tightly and I hugged her. Once again she needed my energy. It was nice and I felt good until it ended, then I felt like it was just another 'taking' from me. Very little in return.

She told me that she has been attracting some weird people to her space at the Salon. One guy was into crystals and energy cleansing her room. Another guy is an accupuncturist who also wants to trade massages with her, as the technique he uses is from the only other instructor of the Hawaiian massage. But he had been hoping for referrals to his acupuncture business. But he is a competitor so why would she do that? She is smarter than that.

So, I'm a little twinged with uneasyness about her meeting men who are 'in the business'. After all, that is her dream. To have a relatioship with a man who is in the same business so they can work together.

But I guess these are also life lessons. Learning about the different types of men out there. Most massage guys I've met are a little odd.

Both said they were 'drawn to her by their spirit guides'. Right, hey bob, why don't you go to this salon and check out the new massage therapist!

Well, we wnet to bed early. She said "Good Nite, Sweet Dreams". still using her distant but pleasant tone of voice.

[frank_D]

Had a long talk with W this morning on a walk, she and I haven't talked about anything in a while, especially since the 'intimacy' we had a month ago.

I told her that I loved her and I will always love her forever. No matter where she is, or what she does, it will always be there. I told her that it's a deep connection I feel for her, one that I can't ever break no matter how much I try. I haven't said anything like this for maybe 3 months.

Then we walked quietly.

She started to cry a little. She calmly said she wished she could be the person who could return that love but she isn't. That I deserve someone who can.

I asked her if she felt the deep connection with me that I feel with her, she paused to think. Then she said she did, that we had nurtured it for so many years. But it didn't hurt her to feel it like it hurts me.

She said she knows she has a lot of growing to do and that she has to do it without me. And nothing can change that because it's a spiritual journey for her. To make deep connections with others, to become whole.

She says she stopped the sex and closeness 4 weeks ago because she found that she stopped taking care of herself then. Stopped her diet and other things. So she decided to put all that energy inward. She didn't tell me then, she just stopped. I told her that it was a shock to me, to go from spending quality time to suddenly stopping without any explanation from her.

She said "I told you that you could 'initiate' things, and I would say 'no' if I didn't want to do anything". So you picked up on my energy and saw I needed space.

I mentioned that I read her actions as meaning 'stay away' and she said that I should expect her to change the way she is feeling - sometimes it'll be like now, sometimes it'll go the other way.

When asked about 'current' boundaries, she said hugs and foot rubs are nice. just no sex.

She says she thinks she will move out by summer, not because she has to, but because she thinks it hurts me too much to live with her.

I did tell her how she could move now if she wanted to but she said she didn't want to right now, would upset the kids lives. She implied she didn't HAVE to move in the summer but it might be better for 'us'.

Summer would be better, but she could also stay longer in the house and pay her own way if I was cool with it. She seems to only want to move out because of me. I was needy today anyway. I'm sure it made it easier for her to detach.

She believes she will be financially able by summer. she has a plan.

She said she needs to 'stop hanging on to me'. I asked her in what way. she said that she couldn't do anything she is doing if it wasn't for me. I explained that she could, she owns half our assets and can take what she wants and move now, do her business. all without me. She didn't think that was good financially.

I really do not see anything to 'wait for'. Every time we talk she is more and more confident that she is doing the right thing for herself.

And she probably is doing the right thing She needs to be 'whole'. She says she doesn't see herself having another 'life partner'. She doesn't need that again.

I told her that I know I won't ever feel the same for anyone else again either. She said that of course I will feel, it will just be different.

You know, I don't think I'm being 'tested' any more.
She is just where she is. She has to grow, heal, become stronger, become her own person.
I'm seeing her future, going from relationship to relationship. getting something from each one, and just being herself. Without me.

W just came in to tell me about picking up kids later. After she finished talking I said 'hey, what about my hug?
She said 'oh, did I forget?' and came over to where I was sitting and gave me one. I think she feels guilty.

One thing I also asked her is that when she decides to 'let that sexual energy flow again' to give me first dibs. She said no. she wasn't promising anything. I asked her jokingly if she thought I was 'sexy'. She paused for a while.
Then she said 'I have never thought of you as 'sexy', I've always been attracted to your eyes, your humor and your knowing.

She also said that right now the 'sexiest' man in the world wouldn't get her to sleep with him, she feels that strongly that she needs to keep it to herself right now.

So, here is a woman who really really doesn't want to feel anything for me that is more than simple 'caring'. Doesn't want to be married, or anything. But she lives with me, is willing to share SOME closeness SOMETIMES as long as it's not TOO close. She will move out and she will not stay in this relationship. She doesn't have to hit me on the head too many more times for me to 'get it'.

As I see it, the only choice is to 'act as if' we are getting divorced. Be nice, do my best to be a friend and stuff like that. But stop hoping. As long as I hold on to hope I behave badly. Just letting her go and looking forward to life without her seems like the best choice. She doesn't hate me, she even has some kind of feelings for me inside. They just aren't what is needed to be in a marriage to me.

some people just end up this way. someone has to be that person and since God has decided I can carry a heavy load and take a lot of crap, then this is my fate. Because I can do it. It is what it is.

[BeingMe]

Yes, it is what it is, and now you know, but I wonder if your W really knows what she wants. It sounds, to me, like she has talked herself into what she thinks she wants. How can anyone with integrity, and a true sense of self imagine that they can take what they want from people (read 'relationships'), and there not be any kind of consequence. Where there is taking, there should also be giving, otherwise that person is just being selfish. I take it that your W is not in her 'salad' years, so she can't possibly think there is more out there. We only get out of a R, what we put into it. You know your W best! What are her core values? People rarely stray away from them, for too long.

I think, perhaps, your W has just forgotten the feelings she had when you met, courted, and got married. Vows are taken with people we love deeply, and are meant to be with, who we intend having a family with, and sharing the responsibilities that goes with that. Your W speaks of wanting to be whole, but one of the things of being a whole person, is to be able to look at the whole picture of one's life, not just the inward journey, but the choices we make and the consequences they have on the people (especially our children - the next generation) around us. Perhaps, she fears she has somehow missed something in life - some of us go through that at a certain age. I did, but it was more a mid-life transition for me, than a crisis.

Not sure if I'm making sense here. I do think you are doing the right thing by detaching, acting 'as if' you are getting a D (it is sad, but no-one has died, and it's not the end of the world), embrace your future with a positive attitude. Life does go on, and who knows what might be waiting for you just around the corner.

I was at this point (detached and looking to the future without H), by the way, when my H decided that he did love me, after all, and wanted to remain in the M. I was almost disappointed since I had huge plans for my future, when single, and had to rethink everything. I hope your W (and all other WAS's on this board) come to their senses before it's too late, and we LBS's have moved too far down the road of detachment to come back. Hope whatever happens, works out for you.

[Be Me]

BeingMe,

I appreciate your post to Frank. It applies to me as well.

when my H decided that he did love me, after all, and wanted to remain in the M. I was almost disappointed since I had huge plans for my future, when single, and had to rethink everything.

That is how my W felt when I came to my senses.

before it's too late, and we LBS's have moved too far down the road of detachment to come back.

This however seems to be where I am now. But I will hang on until she ends it for good.

Frank, I am sorry your W still thinks she has to discover herself alone. Her spiritual journey does not seem to be a Godly spiritual journey. That is the impression that I receive when I read about her. I pray for her salvation, that she comes face to face with our Lord and Savior. With the true God in her life she will find what she is really seeking.

Although our W are different they are similar. I found a note in my Bible today that she wrote saying she would not be able to do what she is if it was not for my help. She has said that many times, yet I am being totally excluded from her life, and what she and our D are doing in finding housing.

As Vernetta said to me, look at the "God forbide, you are divorced" and what you will be doing then. Just leave the door ajar enought that it does not swell and stick shut when she comes knocking.

Look to your Heavenly Father, He will guide you

Bruce

[frank_D]

BeingMe,

W generally does have integrity, and her core values are loving and nurturing. They just seem to be focused on her. I don't think she sees herself 'taking', or at least what she does see, meaning the 'free living with me' she doesn't like. She would prefer to be able to live on her own and be self sufficient.

I'm sure she has 'forgotten' the feelings from when we first met. I'm still trying to understand the reason she gave for us ending the week we had of being close and intimate. "Because I stoppped taking care of myself and working on my business". So, hugging, sitting close watching tv and occasional good sex prevents her from pursuing her career?

I was at this point (detached and looking to the future without H), by the way, when my H decided that he did love me, after all, and wanted to remain in the M. I was almost disappointed since I had huge plans for my future, when single, and had to rethink everything. I hope your W (and all other WAS's on this board) come to their senses before it's too late, and we LBS's have moved too far down the road of detachment to come back.

hmm. I don't want to hope any more because it affects my behavior. I don't know WHAT is going on with her any more, other than she doesn't want to be married to me. She doesn't hate me, actually loves me and has a 'connection' that she could explain away as something she has with 'lots of people'.

She also made a comment about how she needed to be able to be OK being alone BEFORE she would deal with any possible relationships. I guess because she got burned so bad by OM.

I really don't want to be 'alone' or 'in the market'. I know I'm a good man, even W knows that. This seems to be the best thing to do right now. Act 'as if' and be the Alpha male - in charge, confident. Start making my life 'without her'.

I'm glad that when you did this your H 'woke up'. I am afraid to have that hope because it will affect my detachment. Better to go on as if it's over, I think.

[AmyC]

I'm sorry that you are hurting Frank. Very much so.

But I'm telling you, you need to cut her loose. She'll never go on her own. And she'll never find out the truth. It's not a spiritual journey she's on. It's a mid-life crisis and you will hinder her if you don't cut her loose.
I've been where she is. She even sounds like I used to sound in my rational moments talking with my husband.

I don't think you will tell her she has to move. So I will just keep YOU in my prayers. You're where my husband used to be. I'm sorry for that.

Amy

[NewJohn]

frank, just wanted to let you know I'm here reading all this. I'm in no postition to comment or add my observations. Just know that I'm here following your situation and thinking about you.

NewJohn

[frank_D]

I am making assumptions

Last nite W said she had some 'strange' things happen at the Spa where she does massage, two different guys came to her office the past week. One was a weirdo crystal guy who wanted to 'clear' the energy, the other was a Acupuncturist who also did 'Lomi massage' like she does.

He went to a different school and knows a different technique than her.

She said last nite they were going to trade massages. I was thinking about that, how odd that this guy shows up and 'happens' to know this technique. I told her that this afternoon and she said she didn't think it was odd at all. I told her I was worried about her, that's all. She said she can take care of herself.

I said 'so you are trading massage to get a feel for the other schools technique'? She said yes.

But I just got this feeling that he hit on her, showed her some attention or something. And that's what it is really about.

She was kind of hesistant to tell me about these guys last nite, but she brought up the topic of 'weird things' happening. And I asked her 'like what?" and she said 'just weird' and finally told me the story.

Well, anyway, I'm hurting myself thinking she's setting herself up to start dating or something with this one guy. I'm just not seeing why she would 'trade massage' with a stranger unless there was something more to it.

And of course, she is still distant. I'm probably imagining all this.