C may not even push her to 'do something'. But you are right, even if she doesn't do anything I need to detach and make is STICK no matter what she MAY do to try to keep me around. Which of course will irk her and make her want to do something.
That's a good place to be, Frank. Good luck, for tomorrow!
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Well, just thought I'd end the nite with a few comments.
Came home and D10 was getting ready for bed so I tucked her in and sat and talked a while. She was much happier that I spent the time with her.
W was watching TV, nothing in particular. She had made some dinner and put it in the fridge. Some kind of 'pork thing' wrapped around like, stuffing. It wasn't cooked all the way through cuz it was a little pink on the inside. So I only ate the outside. She usually cooks better than that. Oh Well.
I sat in the dining room, away from her. Then went into TV room to be sociable. She didn't really talk much, but she smiled a little when she did. I think she feels like something is up with me. Or wait, she could be PROCESSING. Too bad.
We did have a pleasant 10 minutes of tv watching and small talk about the show (food network chef competition). But, we both decided to 'go to bed' and I made sure I left first. She said 'you sure look tired' and I said 'yep, and I get to get up again tomorrow and do it all over again'.
As I was brushing my teeth I had this fantasy that she came into my (our) room and hugged me and decided to sleep in my bed tonite. Then I said to myself 'You Wish!'.
I thought about what I would wish for. I wish I had a wife. I wish I had someone who was glad to see me when I come home. I wish I didn't have to sleep alone. But we all kind of wish those things here, don't we?
I'm not dwelling on 'I used to have a wife...' or any of that stuff. I'm really glad I only saw her for 10 minutes. I feel a lot better staying away from her, it makes me feel like I don't have to care what happens to her. And it's not like she's going to do or say anything to make me feel like I matter to her.
How sad. To be living with your 'wife', knowing she doesn't care about you, that she's really wondering when 'someone' will come into her life and 'love her completely', and that the possibility that she thinks that someone might be you, is zero.
In the past, I could never imagine her not loving me. Now I can't imagine her showing me she does loves me.
I just realized I don't remember what it feels like to be loved by her. Just what it feels like to be hurt by her. What awful things we do to each other, us 'humans'. I wonder when I'll ever let myself 'feel' love again?
Well, I'm sure tomorrow will be different. Counseling can have an effect on her especially when C is going to hit her with some reality. I think I'll stay at the office late again. It's safer there.
Hi Frank - I recall being in a somewhat similar situation, where I had done far more processing than NG had, and it was beyond frustrating that he was taking so long to arrive at what I felt was an inevitable point - re-committing to the M. Being around him during his moments of truth were more painful than necessary. I second your notion, safer to be away from her tonite, though you might want to make sure she knows you will be late, so it does not become yet another illustration of you 'not being there'.
Frank, I don't usually respond in detail to your posts, but this one seems to resonate with me a bit so here goes...
Quote: I thought about what I would wish for. I wish I had a wife. I wish I had someone who was glad to see me when I come home. I wish I didn't have to sleep alone. But we all kind of wish those things here, don't we?
Yes, we do. I just read an article about a portrait photographer (that part isn't important) and in the article it said this person had a quote taped to their computer monitor that said "What would you do today if you knew you couldn't fail?" Your thoughts made me think of that. We all have hopes and dreams and somehow we start feeling dirty when those hopes and dreams center around a person we come to feel unworthy of them. I think I thought of that quote because it made me think of all the things we, and our WAS do, or DON'T because of the fear of failure. You are afraid to wait OR push because of what it may result in. SHE is afraid of being with you because she knows what your failure to have truly changed would mean to her. Fortunately for you, you are strong enough to overcome these fears and make decisions, realizing that you must accept the outcome, whatever it may be.
Quote: And it's not like she's going to do or say anything to make me feel like I matter to her.
No, that's the problem Frank; at any time you know SHE might do something to make you feel like you matter to her. I think it's BF Skinner's theory at work here of variable reinforcement of behaviors. If she NEVER did those things, you would just stop doing the behaviors that you think cause them, i.e. acting lovingly towards her, etc. No, you are down, I think, because you are just tired of the game.
Quote: How sad. To be living with your 'wife', knowing she doesn't care about you, that she's really wondering when 'someone' will come into her life and 'love her completely', and that the possibility that she thinks that someone might be you, is zero.
Ok, you know this isn't true. Well, the first part is, but that last bit about you having zero chance of being the "one" is not true. There is always hope, and there's always a chance. You know that or else you wouldn't be saying things like "I need to get her off the fence because it's the only thing that will stop allowing her to live in her fantasy world." Now, since you still love her, and have always expressed that FAR beyond how many of us would, I know at least part of you still hopes once off the fence, she will end up on your side of it. Now, that doesn't sound like someone who thinks they have zero chance of being the "one". Frank, you already are the "one" she just doesn't know it...yet.
Quote: In the past, I could never imagine her not loving me. Now I can't imagine her showing me she does loves me.
I totally understand and empathize with this statement. It doesn't take long for us to feel this way does it...hmmm...wonder how long it took our W's to feel this way...
Quote: I just realized I don't remember what it feels like to be loved by her. Just what it feels like to be hurt by her. What awful things we do to each other, us 'humans'. I wonder when I'll ever let myself 'feel' love again?
Again, can you imagine her saying this exact thing a few months ago? She DOES NOT get a pass in all this, but as you well know, she THINKS she does. I can only hope time and distance from the past will help her realize that things are not as the seemed, they are as they are.
Quote:
Well, I'm sure tomorrow will be different.
This, my friend, is the only thing we know for sure.
Well thismorning much of the same, distant and blah. I was upstairs and she was leaving to go on her excercise walk and she called upstairs in her 'neutral' voice 'Bye Frank I'll see you later'. I replied in a similar way. Then I had a thought.
I ran down stairs and she was still there by the door getting her music player set up. I walked right up to her and gave her a big hug and sayed "I just want to let you know how much I APPRECIATE you for taking care of the family while I'm working late like this". She hugged me back and said that 'we appreciate how hard you work too'. I replied "Well I just want to make sure I let you know you're appreciated, sometimes I forget and don't tell you".
It was a nice hug. I let go and she said 'bye, see you later' and there was a difference in her voice, a little happier.
I spoke to her a few minutes later and she was more 'up' and happy. Possible because of her walk, but still...
So, it's often like that. She gets slowly on a downward spiral, wants her life to change, doesn't reach out to me, starts thinking she has to move on.
Then I either tell her she will be great, that I believe in her, that she is a great person. Or I see anopportunity to give her a hug (without asking) and transfer some love to her. It usually brings her out of her funk - for a little while.
Now she's in a 'middle of the road' mood again. Don't know what she is thinking any more. Oh well. One thing for sure, my intuitive self knows when to 'act'. Now it's time to withdraw again and take it away. Sigh.
Counselor will have her work cut out for her today.
Got to hand it to you. Your intuition is so good but more thatn that, you follow up on it. Many times I hesitate and lose the opportunity. That was a good lesson for me.
I have not gone by W's business, made no contact since last Wed. either from her or to her. I shall try to be more attuned to the small voice in my head. NO, not that one, that one only comes when the UFO lands close by
Came home, boy my anxiety level is through the roof. i'm waiting for her to give some kind of indication that she is 'done'. As I walk into the kitchen she has her back to me and I THINK I hear her say 'hello sweetie'. I may have misunderstood her but 'hello sweetie' and 'hello frank' do not sound the same.
Then she talks to me, but she is in the same disconnected, 'matter-of-fact' mode as she has been in all week. She tells me D15 has maybe broke up with her boyfriend, and so we're expecting drama around the house tonite.
She say that she got an e-mail from another old high school friend asking about her. So far she has gotten mail from two previous boyfriends. Both are happily married and have kids. One of them, the one who was just before she met me and who she was infatuated with way back then, just renewed their marriage vows. Of course she probably had to tell them that her marriage is over I'm sure.
The recent one though was someone she dated when she was 15 and she said he gave her a ring, asked her to marry him. (Note that our daughter is 15 as she observed) She said she didn't date him long and of course gave the ring he gave her back.
So, I said "Of course, you were holding out" (for me) She said: "Well you had to get me knocked up though" (what? to keep her? She was infatuated with me then) I said: "Nah you wanted me back then" she gets a look on her face of "I don't know what to say" and there is a silence.
I don't recall what I said next but the topic was changed.
I mentioned a few old firend I had heard from over the past year. One couple she had met and she asked me if they were 'still together'. I said 'of course they are'. Weird question to ask.
She kept her tone of voice, the 'distant, detached, you're just a guy I know' voice.
I told her I was a bit stressed with the work I'm doing, which is my 'cover story' for when I am having anxiety about her and I.
No hugs, no touching, no nothing. She got ready to go and went to do some massages. Said bye and walked out the door.
I have no idea what Counselor and her talked about, but she probably got some kind of 'clarity'. I know C would stay on whatever topic W would talk about so if she was in her 'frustration with life' mode she may not have said anything about divorce and moving forward. She may have given her ideas on how to keep herself balanced. I dunno.
Either way, I have been anxious, expecting the worst. It seems like every day she is more and more disconnected. Ready to go on with her life without me. So who knows what she is thinking. I won't see counselor till tuesday to get a clue as to what's happening. Right now I am a case.
Quote: Either way, I have been anxious, expecting the worst. It seems like every day she is more and more disconnected. Ready to go on with her life without me. So who knows what she is thinking. I won't see counselor till tuesday to get a clue as to what's happening. Right now I am a case.
I can see why! I would be a case too, waiting for an answer, a decision...that still won't surface.
Me: 44
W: 41
S15
Together 25 years- Married 22
My situation
I'm sorry it looks like you may have to wait 'til Tuesday to know what happened today. Perhaps you will get some further enlightenment over the weekend. HEY! Stranger things have happened . Keep yourself busy so you don't go 'round the bend in the meantime.
.