Quote: So, I asked myself why it was the case that I could contemplate maybe doing without sex for a year or two if I divorced my husband but I couldn't contemplate going for a week or two without sex while I was married to him.
I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this, male and female.
In my own case, I know I'm stuck on what I interpret his lack of interest in me sexually MEANS about his feelings toward me. I know he has the ED issue, but this man gives a great hand job (although he pretty much won't do oral due to the ick factor )-- the fact that he won't push outside his comfort zone to pleasure me MEANS to me that I don't mean that much to him.
OTOH I know he loves me. He would do anything for me (except this).
OTOH again, I'm not exactly stepping up to the plate and initiating. The diff between me and Mojo is that when I stopped initiating, we stopped having sex, unless you count four or five times in the last two years (that's when he had the heart surgery and stopped drinking).
Chances are, if I started initiating again, he would go along, but that wouldn't solve the MEANING issue cited above.
I guess the bottom line for me (at least at this moment, until I come up with something else) is that the MEANING is more important to me than the sex itself.
Must ponder that.
It occurs to me that I should follow NOP's advice to NG and initiate every day. In the beginning I did and most of the time we did it (whatever it is we do-- seldom IC), but a) there were a few times when he turned me down BRUTALLY, and b) he was drinking. Those two things were not unrelated.
But you are still worried about it. Sex. Whether it is happening or not. It's meaning. To you. Or not. MoJo gave up her attached meaning to sex. What it did or did not mean to her.
Hmmm... Corri, could you spell that out a bit more?... I know the meaning is more important to me than the sex... I really want to understand your point, but it has skidded off my dense skull.
Also, I had a thought earlier today, as an Enneagram Seven, Mojo is more readily able to distract herself from uncomfortable situations than those of us who are Meaning-Seeking Navel-Gazing Fours (me, karen, IHJ).
So JJ, theoretically it would be easier for you, as a Seven, to distract youself from the meaning you previously associated with your husband's failure to initiate sex. And you have referred several times to day trading, gardening, etc. -- all activities that have functioned to successfully distract you in a positive way; the net effect being that you feel happier not thinking about the negative meaning you used to spend so much time dwelling on.
BUT, interestingly-- and I don't know if this is relevant or not-- your husband is a Four... right before you went to Alaska, Jenny, I posted something I read somewhere about how it's hard for a man to be a Four in our society. It's more permissible for a woman to be the melancholy romantic than for a guy.
The difference for me would be simply freedom of choice.
If I was single and choose to go with out sex thats my choice. And I have the option to change my mind at any time. I know that if I choose to have sex it would not be a problem to find a willing partner (beer googles if needed). But if I am married and the one person I am to have sex with is not interested that takes me into a area where the lack of sex is not my choice more of a forced issue. Which really changes the whole dynamics of the sitch.
In one case I choose to not have sex. In the other case someone else chooses that I do not have sex for me.
I understand what you're saying about the choices, Chrissy, but in my case, I could have sex more often with my BF (read: at all) if I would initiate.
But knowing that he finds me desirable and wants me is obviously MORE important to me than having sex, kwim? So I keep looking for signs that he is sexually attracted to me, and I'm not seeing them. And THAT'S what hurts, NOT the lack of sex. I'm drawing this conclusion about my priorities by observing my behavior.
I guess in a way I'm stuck on the sandbar with barney and cemar (and karen, too)... I want to be wanted. I want to know that he wants me.
And I disagree that when you're single you can have sex any time you want to. I guess you can pick up someone just about any time you want to. But to establish a relationship with someone you really like and love, have a home (or "home" analog) with them, grow to love their kids, sing together, build a garden, share cooking, meals, travel-- you can't find THAT any old time you want to. I think we've established that this isn't just about having sex whenever you want.
If the "meaning" aspect of this issue didn't matter to me, I probably could have sex (or something resembling sex) any time I wanted to also... but I would never know that feeling of being sexually desired by my special chosen partner... sad, very sad.
JJ, what did you do with your desire to be desired? Oh, that's right, when you backed off, your H stepped up to the plate often enough to satisfy your desire to be desired.
Chrissy, your H wants you sexually more than you want him, so my spot may be a hard spot for you to imagine (maybe in past relationships you felt this way?).
I guess I need to push myself outside of MY comfort zone...
I understand everything you said. But the question was how one could choose to do without sex if divorced yet it be such a issue to not have sex while married. That was the only aspect I was answering. The question did not included not having EC or feeling desired. So my answer just addressed the question at hand dealing with the sex part. I think that answer for JJ was a turning point to find satisfaction or resolution to see that all the things she had with her H was not worth the cost of giving up for the one thing they did not have a rampant sex life. You yourself I think are at the same crossroads. You can see all of what you have not just the thing that lacks in your relationship and are trying to decided if that is enough. Or do you want to discard it in hopes of maybe one day finding it all.
Quote: I think that answer for JJ was a turning point to find satisfaction or resolution to see that all the things she had with her H was not worth the cost of giving up for the one thing they did not have a rampant sex life.
When she stopped pushing, their sex life (I guess) backed off somewhat but did not disappear. ALSO, as a Seven, she was successful in distracting herself.
I'm not sure either of these things apply to me (if I back off, the SL will still exist; AND I will be able to distract myself from noticing the absence of something that gives meaning to our relationship). Believe me, I wish I could stop pondering this. It can't be healthy for me to keep going over and over this.
At Christmas when I got off the board, I had decided to do what it looks like JJ did, namely stop finding fault with his behavior/position and simply accepting the person he is. I stayed with that pretty faithfully for a couple of months and in that time he did initiate a hand job once. I was very happy-- and I felt on that day, if he would reach out (literally ) from time to time, I could live with the lack of hot sex that I remember from my past. And yes I did tell him this (not the part about the past hot sex) and we discussed it and he seemed to agree and we talked about me going with him to his therapist for a few visits (his therapist is a man older than he who also has ED, is a widower, and is married)... but lately I'm tired of pushing this rock up the hill by myself. He just doesn't seem interested in reaching a mutually satisfactory place. I'm so tired of working at this... very bad attitude today...
Another weekend at my house in the country... it could be so idyllic... but now I just dread these times when something might happen, but if I want it to, I have to dig down inside and find some interest in having sex... just venting and whining...
BTW my phone psychic whom I mentioned a while ago said this relationship is over and we both know it. I've talked to her probably six or so times over the past four years, and for the last couple of years she's been saying this. Her message is that he's doing better, but we are holding each other back, and it's time to move on. And no, she doesn't know me or anything about me. When I call, all I say is his name with NO background comments of any sort, and she launches into her comments. I give her NO information about what is going on. I just listen.
Okay, now I've really established myself as the Eccentric Old Lady of the bunch! Well, admit it-- y'all suspected it all along, didn't ya?
I understand what your saying. We are at the same table on this just on different sides.
Truthfully I think for some looking at what they have it can be enough to satisfy them even though there is a cost of something they wish they had or is missing. For others though what they have is not enough to satisfy them and what is missing holds to large of a value to them or is to large of a part of them to continue doing without.
I stand at this crossroads myself. Up to now the cost of my freedom has been to much for me to bear. My everyday interactions with my kids since I know at least one will stay with him. To keep what I have the cost has been worth hat I have to give up. Until now that was enough for me. But the winds of change as be are shifting on this dynamic in my mind right now. Causing me to re evaluate my sitch and my decisions and making me loony and disjointed as my thread shows.!
You mean there are people out there who would find themselves suddenly celibate and be okay with it? Not me! I hate being celibate, even if it's self inflicted. I would not be "okay" with that thought, so the whole premise is not sitting right with me. Sure, I'd tolerate it and I would not go out and have one nighters (I'm speaking from experience here, having had various periods of celibacy). But I would NOT be okay with it! I remember even feeling depressed at the loss of that part of my life, one time when it had been about a year with no sex and only fairly casual dating.
I guess my question is: Why *would* anyone be okay with that setup? It is a fundamental part of life...we as humans were designed to do it and the lack of it affects us physically and mentally/emotionally. So I find the whole question to be a bit odd, to tell the truth!
If I were contemplating divorce, I would look forward to my freedom but celibacy would be a big time drawback of my new life.
)-- the fact that he won't push outside his comfort zone to pleasure me MEANS to me that I don't mean that much to him. 
) from time to time, I could live with the lack of hot sex that I remember from my past. And yes I did tell him this (not the part about the past hot sex) and we discussed it and he seemed to agree and we talked about me going with him to his therapist for a few visits (his therapist is a man older than he who also has ED, is a widower, and is married)... but lately I'm tired of pushing this rock up the hill by myself. He just doesn't seem interested in reaching a mutually satisfactory place. I'm so tired of working at this... very bad attitude today... 
Well, admit it-- y'all suspected it all along, didn't ya?