I see a lot of stuff in your replies. My thoughts on this may be a little direct and painful, but I am going to tell it like I see it. There is too much to dance around. Sorry if I come across too insensitive.
Everything I see in your replies to my post and others tells me you have not understood the dynamics going on here. Your focus is on what is wrong with your H and how he needs to change. It is true that he is contributing to the problem, but only 50%. If you’ve read the other threads on this board, you should by now that the very first, most fundamental lesson is that you cannot change him. He must change himself, if he wants to, when he wants to and how he wants to. He might decide not to change at all. You do have significant influence over his decision, but not total control.
Referring to “You are the pursuer. He is the avoider.”
I don't know how to change this dynamic either. I've tried backing off, but he never seems to pick up the role of pursuer.
Have you picked up the book on Love Addiction yet? This explains the roles. Schnarch explains why you should not play these roles. Right now your H is the LD avoider. This is his way of passively exerting control over you, knowing that it causes you pain. He is angry, and for whatever reason, still feels a need more vengeance. So why would he suddenly become a pursuer? But this is his stuff to work on. You should not worry about it.
I don't know about this part. I pursue to get my needs met because I want to be and feel close to him...maybe the closeness makes me feel secure....yes, I suppose that sounds right. I pursue to have someone to hang out with.
I think you diminish the extent of your insecurity here. You need him a lot more than just someone to hang out with. It sounds to me that since college you have needed to be the focus of his attention, to the exclusion of your friends and any other aspect of your life. You say
This has always been the case, going all the way back to the beginning of the R. I had sorority friends, but I'd rather see a movie with him. And so, instead of going without him, I'd wait for him to drag his butt out of bed and get ready to go with me.
This is NOT normal. You are like a puppy dog following him around everywhere. Anytime he turns around you are there, under foot, almost getting stepped on. Do you see how smothering this can be? What if someone followed you around like that? Even if it is someone you loved very much, wouldn’t you get tired of it after a while? Do you still think he has a desire to suddenly turn around and pursue you?
He had so much power over me in this area and he knew it and he used it.
Sorry, but this statement is absurd. How did he exert this “power” over you? Did he have some secret he could blackmail you with, or hold a gun to your head? This is your denial talking loud and clear. I am sure your husband does not buy this argument from you and from only what you’ve posted on this board, neither can I. Like Schnarch says, you can’t fix what you won’t acknowledge.
I don't think my actions were nearly that thought out.
No, I don’t think it was overtly conscious either, but I do think there was a voice in the back of your head that told you what you were doing. You chose not to listen to it. I don’t think you are that innocent in your actions. This again is the denial speaking. Until you own your actions and stop acting like someone or something else caused you to do something, how do you ever expect to stop doing it?
I have read a little about the state of mind of an MLCer and I have seen quite a few things that I feel describe my state of mind at the time.
Stop trying to blame this on MLC. Unless you have some other personality disorder you have not disclosed, you are perfectly capable of understanding the consequences of your decisions. Trying to pin the blame on MLC or any other “illness” is just an attempt to avoid confronting yourself. (Does your husband ever say you do this??? I’m betting yes.)
The only fog you are experiencing is that of not wanting to see the true you. This is entirely your issue, has nothing to do with your H or your situation, but may have a lot to do with your FOO. Can you give any insight here?
I got the "Passionate Marriage" last night and am reading it. It is impossible to be able to read and keep the things I'm reading a secret from H. He thinks all the books I read are so stupid and everytime I buy another one, I feel even stupider.
Why in the world do you want to keep this a secret from him? He needs to know you are working on yourself (truly working on you, not finding a new way to twist the blame onto him). This knowledge, plus changes in your behavior and actions, will limit his available responses, “forcing” changes in your relationship mix and in him.
Keeping this a secret sounds like you don’t want to upset the situation, which is what I thought you wanted to change? So why would you sabotage yourself? Are you worried about hurting his feelings? Do you think this concern for him is your way of showing your selflessness, your dedication to others? Well it isn’t. It is a breach of your integrity. Your sacrifice of your feelings for his feeling will breed resentment in you (haven’t you built up enough of this exact thing already?) and cause him to lose respect for you (hasn’t he already lost enough of this already?)
I think keeping this as secret could really in your interest, not his. Maybe by keeping the book secret, you don’t have worry about the possibility of him bringing up his complaints about you, which would make you confront yourself, and by what I see, avoiding this is your number one priority.
If H pulls away, then I typically pull away. That is the extent of my power plays. I generally take the stance 'you want distance, fine, distance it is'. But I am resentful about it. Closeness to me is a general feeling of connectedness that spans time. I don't freak out at the first sign of him creating distance, but I definitely notice. By the third day, I'm pissed and creating distance myself.
Being pissed and creating distance can still be a power play. Having an affair definitely is.
I have never found anything I'd rather do over being with him.
This is a BIG problem. Why aren’t you content doing things by yourself or with others?
I know the point of this statement and the point of what Schnarch is probably trying to get across is more of an awareness within yourself of what is happening.
No, I don’t read this out of Schnarch. Awareness is important because otherwise you are in denial and can see the problem to be fixed. But ultimately you need to find security in yourself without relying on someone else. So far you have depended on your H for your sense of self and security. As long as things are stable, this might work. But it can get stale and boring. It seems YOU are the one who has a problem with boring since you had the affair. In so doing, you sabotaged the very security you wanted. What you need to see is that you were making a power play get his attention to inject more spice into the marriage because you felt detached or abandoned by him.
Again, I don’t think awareness is the problem. I think you knew what was bothering you and why you did what you did. But you haven’t admitted the truth to yourself or your H. He also knows what is really going on, so your apologies do not resonate with him. He knows you are still avoiding responsibility, trying to make it sound like your actions were his fault. I wouldn’t accept an apology like that either.
Schnarch is saying you need to become self confident, self sufficient, self loving so you don’t need someone to do that for you. During stress, they must take care of themselves and do not have the time or energy to support you as you would like. The feeling of abandonment will anger you and make and already stressful situation worse. Awareness is important, but being self reliant, or differentiated, is the goal.
Re: ”As much as you need to pursue him, he needs to be pursued. “
What makes you say that? How can you tell?
You two are equally differentiated and on the same level. If you are chasing, he is running. If this were not true, either you or he would have left long ago. The difference is that he probably feels smothered, or engulfed, by you. So his way of finding relief, of being able to catch his breath, is to distance. He probably married you because he was engulfed in some way by his family. He wanted someone to chase him so he could feel wanted and loved. Your clinginess felt comfortable and secure to him. You two fit each other.
I'd rather keep my personal development separate from our MC sessions. What kinds of things do I need to ask myself to figure out what you're referring to?
Like Lil said, separating your personal development from your marriage is impossible, and for several reasons:
• He may not distinguish you and the marriage separately • He sees you as dysfunctional and needs to see your personal progress • Bringing everything into the open will be good for you. You seem to have a tendency to keep secrets (secret of affair, keeping the book PM secret, keeping your personal development secret). This may be your natural way of handling issues, to avoid direct confrontation, because of how you were raised. It may also be a consequence of your avoidance of truly seeing yourself. • You cannot know how your H sees you and what is important to him. To assume you know how he feels would be arrogant. You need to hear his input. He knows you better than anyone else and is he one most able to make you confront your issues. I think this is what you are really wanting to avoid. Listen to that little voice in you head.
