I am assuming you are a M, because us Fs could never understand a M in such a way. You are dead on. M & Fs are just so different in how we think. My H says something similar to the OPs comments & I misread it, miss the point. I am guilty of saying he doesn't compliment, but in his mind he is thinking, this lady is f'in crazy, I compliment her all the time.
I need to get better at hearing/listening to what it is he is actually saying. (And he needs to as well) If I take the time to translate his language to my own understanding, I can then start to get the validation I need. Maybe I was getting it all along & just missed it. When you put her sitch the way you did, his comment seemed quite sweet and as you mentioned vulnerable/insecure.
I can't wait to "see" things differently over this next week to see if it will change things, or how I view things for myself. The change needs to start with me.
Thank you for such GREAT posts. I appreciate your insight.
Thank you for a most thoughtful post. I sorta thought H might have been fishing with that comment. However, it was said in a room full of kids (8-20years old) and offhandedly so I just looked over and gave him a little smile with raised eyebrows - like, "Hey, give a try whenever you want."
Dreamt a good one last night (symbols: wedding, water, flying, falling....)
I was at a wedding on the property of this gorgeous non-profit I recently applied to. The non-profit is environmental in nature and has this incredible "green" building on the Chesapeake Bay. Anyway, I was actually "crashing" the wedding (we are going to a wedding this weekend where I don't really know the people, old friends of H). It was a very elegant, high profile kind of wedding and there were two helicopters flying around to maintain the "privacy" of the wedding - like with celebrity weddings. Anyway, as I'm sitting there I am thinking how cool it would be to fly in a helicopter and then I am actually sitting in one of them but still also sitting at the wedding. Flying around looking at the wedding from above, the water etc... - amazing. Then I realize that I cannot be in two places at once and the helicopter evaporates from around me, I fall into the water and get out laughing, amazed, exhilarated.... The dream ends.
Well Stig, I think I am listening better. H gave another H style compliment. Tonight at dinner I happened to mention something about how we met and H piped up and said, "So you see it was totally random or a gift from God if you ask me." It is difficult for me because although I know that my H loves me it doesn't often seem as he loves the sexual side of me. It is more like he loves the mother/partner/wifey side and is suspicious of the sexy side. The only time he compliments me that way is two seconds before he approaches me for sex - he'll say "hey sexy" or sometimes before church he will jokingly say that I am going to hell for making the priest think those thoughts due to my outfit.
I just get so confused. When I write it all out I sound like such a whiner but yet, my H really doesn't approach me very often for sex, he has largely stopped passionatelly kissing me except during sex, has gotten less and less experimental, gets angry/defensive whenever i want to discuss any changes, greater frequency etc... Am I just that tough to satisfy? Is it really too much to ask to have sex a couple of times/week most weeks and have some variety and passion? I HATE IT when two or three weeks pass between times we ML and it just doesn't seem to phase him at all. I HATE IT when we don't spend much quality time due to life circumstances. Again, doesn't seem to phase him. He was single for so long, with few long term or sexual R's it is as if I am kind of like the extra rich chocolate cake - it is nice to have, not a necessity and something to indulge in occasionally.
I am just spilling thoughts randomly here. Jump in where it makes sense.
...so I just looked over and gave him a little smile with raised eyebrows - like, "Hey, give a try whenever you want."
- I had a feeling this may have been the case, K. Have full confidence in your abilities not to let that pass unnoticed. Last thing you need to hear is an collective "Ewwwww!" from teens not wishing to hear about their "Rents'" SL. Good on the "look."
I was at a wedding on the property of this gorgeous non-profit I recently applied to. The non-profit is environmental in nature and has this incredible "green" building on the Chesapeake Bay. Anyway, I was actually "crashing" the wedding (we are going to a wedding this weekend where I don't really know the people, old friends of H). It was a very elegant, high profile kind of wedding and there were two helicopters flying around to maintain the "privacy" of the wedding - like with celebrity weddings. Anyway, as I'm sitting there I am thinking how cool it would be to fly in a helicopter and then I am actually sitting in one of them but still also sitting at the wedding. Flying around looking at the wedding from above, the water etc... - amazing. Then I realize that I cannot be in two places at once and the helicopter evaporates from around me, I fall into the water and get out laughing, amazed, exhilarated.... The dream ends.
Any armchair Freds or Jungs out there?
- LOL K. "Fred" typo. Now picturing an passed out fat dude named "Fred" groggily stirring in his armchair holding laptop while logged in to SSM MB.
What? No takers? Sigh.
I love these IRL. Esp. when Fs tell them to me. I go all Freudian on their a$$es. [Disclaimer: Karen, this is for your entertainment purposes only. I will not be held liable for blah blah blah legalese blah blah blah...]
Of course, the wedding symbolizes your M. And that it is upper crust/high end it represents what you want your M to be--the high ideal.
When you see the choppers you think to self, "hmmm, how can I make my M this way? Perhaps a better/different perspective?"
Whoosh. You're up in the chopper. God's Eye view. Seeing your M in its entirety. Wow, different perspecdtive. "I can see things from up here I couldn't see from the ground."
...Including some of the missing parts, like, say, the catering truck way off in the distance held up in traffic.
You start to dwell on the missing pieces, finding it hard not to look past them. You feel yourself starting to overanalyze when you remind yourself,
"Hey, I can't view/analyze my M from above and participate simultaneously as part of it on the ground without sacrificing something. Gotta just live in it for the moment and see where it takes us."
Chopper dissolves. Karen falls into the water without going <splat> on the ground. Whew! She laughs. Ah, yes, and being Stigmata, you just know where I am going next...
The water is an cleansing, a washing away of dread and M doubts, yes...a baptism of sorts. You feel exhilirated as you emerge.
"Wow. Everything is going to be okay after all."
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Tonight at dinner I happened to mention something about how we met and H piped up and said, "So you see it was totally random or a gift from God if you ask me."
- Awesome. Lotsa Ms would have said how lucky YOU were.
It is difficult for me because although I know that my H loves me it doesn't often seem as he loves the sexual side of me. It is more like he loves the mother/partner/wifey side and is suspicious of the sexy side.
- Nah. Not suspicious. Just in cruise control mode with all of the house stuff, kids, training blah blah.
The mother partner wifey side he loves is the deep deep bonding that keeps Rs going through the long haul. Never underestimate its power or importance for you both.
The only time he compliments me that way is two seconds before he approaches me for sex - he'll say "hey sexy"
- I'm sure I've done this before too. Man thing. "Why read all of the drawn-out niceties and details of the paperwork? We both already know the details (read: compliment reinforcement) Let me just sign this sucka and let's git it oooonnn."
...or sometimes before church he will jokingly say that I am going to hell for making the priest think those thoughts due to my outfit.
- I like your H. I have a comment very similar to this one but won't divulge. Bringing up your sexiness at church is a big time risque type compliment. So naughty and taboo. Good for H. Gold star.
...Am I just that tough to satisfy? Is it really too much to ask to have sex a couple of times/week most weeks and have some variety and passion? I HATE IT when two or three weeks pass between times we ML and it just doesn't seem to phase him at all. I HATE IT when we don't spend much quality time due to life circumstances. Again, doesn't seem to phase him.
- About his getting angry about verbalizing your needs. Maybe he's more focused on the "life circumstances" mor than you. Hard to get 2 people on the same wavelength most of the time--especially under stress. I know I became passive to the point of unplugging from the SL due to let's just say an MASSIVE amount of stress. Was last thing on my mind unfortunately for me.
I know you'd rather not, but did you ever think about just taking charge and getting what you want from him? A la GEL? Maybe to "train" him to get comfortable with an regular pattern? Perhaps for one whole week you agree to initiate and do everything to him while he receives. The next week he is to initiate and do everything to you from start to finish. Maybe a fun game of who can top whom.
He was single for so long, with few long term or sexual R's it is as if I am kind of like the extra rich chocolate cake - it is nice to have, not a necessity and something to indulge in occasionally.
- Hm, same here. Single long time, few long term Rs. Can't remember what/if you said. Does he MB in between the ML periods? Ill bet he does. May not admit it to you though.
Again, if you want it, will have to just take it for now. Initiate. Maybe some Horny Goat Weed in his food? LOL j/k.
...oh, and keep your rich chocolate cake away from HD's house. Sore spot.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Stig: Maybe she DID mean Fred, as in Fred Flintstone. I interpret her dream this way: Karen, your dream tells me that you obviously want to ML with me. That's what I use to tell any woman/girl I knew in my younger years who ever told me any dream. It didn't matter what the dream was. Yes, even then I was an obnoxious horn-dog. Some things never change.
Fred/Freud - all depends on the quality of the analysis.
Stig - pretty Freud worthy. That was pretty much my interpretation. I appreciate your other comments. I think you are on the money for the most part.
However, you asked whether I have tried just going for what I want. Yes, I have. The results have been wildly mixed. Sometimes H is "up" for the couple of times/week plan. Sometimes he is put out/pressured/grumpy about it. Sometimes he is passive agressive about it - he won't say he doesn't want to but will provide only minimal participation. The less enthusiastic he is, the more my ego-alarm bells go off and I shut down, become resentful, get frightened and basically completely lose my sense of otherness (FOO, ex-H blah blah blah).
HD - that was definate Fred in the Lay-Z-Boy (tee hee) interpretation.
I feel a good change in the wind though. I think the fact that I didn't chase H when we went on vacation, that I haven't chased him since has removed pressure, caused him to miss me, and left room for him to initiate. So Friday and Saturday night the baby was miserable, wouldn't go to sleep and H said in frustration - gee, I had hoped we would have sex tonight. Then he had a "chat" with DD and we decided she needed to cry it out a bit. Her sleep cycle has been disrupted with the vacation and she isn't on track again yet. So, on Sunday night we put her down and she cried about 35 minutes and slept ALL NIGHT. Again, H came to bed and said "I really want to go to bed early on Monday night so we can have sex but it won't last long because...well, you know and then maybe Thursday." Of course, I said that sounds great, what's wrong with now? He said too tired, blah, blah, blah. This is progress. I really don't think that these were empty promises. H doesn't do too much empty promising. If he doesn't follow through I will have to say something but for now, this is progress and the best part is that I didn't prompt it...
In the pat when I have had this happen I have thanked H, told him how much it means to me or something like that. Well, I have learned that to H this kind of "praise" actually sends a negative/evalutative message of some kind. Anyone have a suggestion for showing "appreciation" without having that kind of message.
It is two steps forward and three back but hearing the guys on here sometimes say - "Hey I'm an HD guy and that makes sense to me or even sounds like me" when I talk about things H says or does helps a lot. Thanks.
Quote: Yes, even then I was an obnoxious horn-dog.
Come into my office, my boy, and lie down vile I fill my pipe. <Dr. Fred sits down and lights a cigar. Observing that he also has a pipe in his hand, he tries not to look confused, and is glad the room is fairly dark.>
So... how long have you considered your horniness an obnoxious quality? I know you said it in jest, but in my years of practice with uptight upper class types, I have obserwed that often things said in jest (and you DO joke a lot, my boy) haf a kernel of truth in dem... Somevhere in you, you haf believed in the truth of your vife's judgment that the male sex drive is obnoxious, haven't you? <Fred's tone becomes more intense. He leans forward.>
That's why you chose a voman who vould mirror back to you your own disgust with your desire to have sex four times a day, isn't it? I know she didn't start out that vay, but that attitute vas in her, vasn't it? <Fred, pulls a pocket watch from his vest.>
Here... look at this shiny gold watch as I move it back and forth in front of your eyes... repeat after me: "The male sex drive is powerful and beautiful and epitomizes* the Life Force. When I am a horndog, I am the carrier of the Life Force. Horniness is Life!!" <Dr. Fred dangles the shiny object in front of horndog's eyes.>
Did you think that vanting a lot of sex is permissible for a young man of twenty, but that as you get older, if you vant it, you vill be seen as a Dirty Old Man? Great Cesar's Ghost, man, vhere vould that leave me? <Dr. Fred rises in agitation from his chair, catches himself, then sits down again> Vanting sex is gut a any age. It is healthy. Do you understand? HEALTHY! <Fred calms himself again, and takes a puff on his cigar, then his pipe.>
Many perfectly normal vomen vould lof to be wit a man who vants sex four times a day. I know this for a fact! They are in my office all the time! Just ignore CeMar vaving his arms over there in the corner. (I see him next hour.) And many men vould envy your VIGOR! <Dr. Fred puts watch back in his pocket.>
Okay, time's up! <Fred opens the blinds. Sunlight floods the room> That will be 485 DEM. Do ve still use that currency? I can't remember I also take credit cards. See you next veek.
*I know I can use big vords wit you because you are a lawyer and they have B-I-G wocabularies.
__________________ (apologies to Z-bube for the accent. )
Sometimes a cigar is only a cigar, but of course, with Lil, it is a phallic representation. The pipe? She's been smoking some of that wacky weed she grows out on the corner of her property.
Thanks Lil, for the insight into my id versus superego battle. But dang, woman, I don't think I ever thought my sex drive was disgusting. When I said "obnoxious horn-dog", I was talking about two, unrelated qualities in my youth (and in my present, to a more limited extent): that I was obnoxious, and that I was horny.
You're barking up the wrong tree, I think.
But I dug the German accent. Very sexy! You think you could talk that way while swinging around a riding crop?
Hey Lil, Think you could hypnotize my wife while you are at it? Let her know that it is OK for me too to be a horndog, rather than being repulsed by it... Money well spent. Money well spent!
That's what I use to tell any woman/girl I knew in my younger years who ever told me any dream. It didn't matter what the dream was. Yes, even then I was an obnoxious horn-dog. Some things never change.
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