H, I can see how it must be very hard for you to process things with my defensiveness in the background. Now really is a time for you to have someone to talk to for your own sake and for me not to be a part of it. It takes a lot of guts to see someone individually, but you've always been a strong guy.
Update: We talked more. I told him that I think our underlying issue has been lack of an intimate relationship. I believe that men pride themselves on their ability to please their wifes sexually. This is where my issues come in; after the kids I got fat so I had a poor body image and was self conscious about it, A lower sex drive, performance anxiety. Therefore I really never initiated and lots of times when my H did I turned him down.
Now that the opportunity for intimacy is gone, is when I really want it. Too late for that. Anyway, I believe the rejection slowly built up walls of insecurity around my H. It really did a number on his self-esteem that combined with the fact that he thinks I was having sex all the time before we met. He asked me if I was attracted to him (of course I am) but for him to ask me must mean he didn't know. Anyway, he got a little frustrated with the conversation because again he thought that I was treating him like a child and I was his Mom telling him what to do. I backed off. A while later he said, he does love me and why can't we just be friends and be happy, he doesn't want to fight with me. He really thinks that talking to someone by himself is a good idea so I hope he pursues that in the very near future.
I really do have to step back and detach myself a bit because this is starting to seem like pursuit. I will start going back to my counselor to work on my control issues again.
Quote: I told him that I think our underlying issue has been lack of an intimate relationship. I believe that men pride themselves on their ability to please their wifes sexually.
I know you may not have phrased this exactly the way you did to him but I have to assume it was something like this. I see one problem, and the one that probably cause him to feel like you were lecturing him like a mother is that you put yourself in a position to KNOW what is wrong and you were basically TELLING him about it. He probably resented being told something he either already knew or doesn't agree with.
In any event, my C keeps telling me that I make this mistake all the time. She is trying to get me to only make "I" statements when talking about these things. So with that advice in mind, that convo would have gone something like "Honey, I feel like I was missing the intimacy in our relationship. I needed more from you, and wanted to give more to you but after the kids were born and I put on weight, I didn't know if you still wanted me. I was afraid of rejection by you, and so I just stopped initiating. I also started rejecting you because as the intimacy level went down, I started getting more self conscious and I felt uncomfortable with sex. If we can work back to a point where we are going to be intimate again, I just want you to know that I really love sex with you and I am working on understanding myself so I can ensure I enjoy what we do together." or something like that. Of course, now may not be the time to have that convo, but hell, there may never really be the RIGHT time for that. As OT often suggests though, these kinds of talks with someone that we are NOT in an intimate R with can have unexpected, and sometimes negative results.
I just think that most of us need to understand how we sound to our spouses. While we think we are merely sharing, much like we do here every day, a great new revelation about our R with our spouse, it may come off as controlling and condescending. We get so wrapped up in being the "one" to fix all this that we forget that they have their own set of beliefs, feelings and yes, believe it or not, ideas about what went wrong. Hell, they may even have an idea or two about how to make things work.
Mama, you know I struggle as much as you do with this. I feel for you. Actually, I just realized something more I wanted to journal on my thread relating to my struggle with when/how to talk to W. Maybe it will be relevant to you.
Overall, I am glad that the convo seemed to end on a positive note. I really hope he goes to therapy and by all means, YOU KEEP GOING to yours.
Quote: I see one problem, and the one that probably cause him to feel like you were lecturing him like a mother is that you put yourself in a position to KNOW what is wrong and you were basically TELLING him about it. He probably resented being told something he either already knew or doesn't agree with.
I understand this now, after the fact. We did actually talk about how it is good to talk with a counselor as I have no idea that I am coming off as a condescending, controlling Parent. An unobjective counselor can put me in my place without me getting defensive.
Quote: I just think that most of us need to understand how we sound to our spouses. While we think we are merely sharing, much like we do here every day, a great new revelation about our R with our spouse, it may come off as controlling and condescending. We get so wrapped up in being the "one" to fix all this that we forget that they have their own set of beliefs, feelings and yes, believe it or not, ideas about what went wrong. Hell, they may even have an idea or two about how to make things work.
Again, this is so true of me and not only in my R with my H. I also have a tendency to do this with my kids. I am a "fixer" and deep down I guess I feel that I am the only one that can do things right. For example, if I ask my girls to make their beds I go in after them and fix it to my liking - this is giving them the message that what they do is not good enough.
I have to realize that everything is not all about me. It looks like I am back to square one. I will reread DB/DR and make an appointment with my C to work on me and me only.
Here is something I found interesting. I don't really believe in this stuff but I read my horoscope anyway. This is what mine says for today:
Your love boat has been enjoying some steady sailing, so don't rock it. If a minor problem needs to be addressed, make sure you do so with the best of intentions and the calmest of demeanors. Stay on course.
You may encounter a problem at work ( I'll apply this to my R )that's not in your power to solve. This is, naturally, quite annoying. But you have to be realistic: If the matter is out of your hands, the matter is out of your hands. Instead of getting too unduly upset about it, focus on what you can change, or on what is working. You'll feel better, and the powers that be will eventually deal with the problem
Last night everything was fine but my problem is back to the fact that my brain is on overdrive and I cannot sleep. H gets up very early for work and he saw me watching TV. He asked why I was still up, instead of just saying I couldn't sleep I elaborated by saying I'm really upset about things he said Wed. night. I said I needed to talk to someone, we had a few words where he started getting angry again. He said I analyze things too much and he can't take all the grilling. He said he feels like he has to report everything he does to me like I am his mom. After his shower I apologized for being so self centered. He said he thought maybe he was the one that was self centered and he said things to me the other night that were fueled by anger and alcohol and he is sorry he said it because he doesn't mean it. Then we dropped the R talk and talked about what kids were doing today. As he was leaving for work I told him to have a good day, he started to walk away then came back and apologized to ME and gave me a really tight and long hug.
I am on here dispensing DB advice all the time yet I cannot follow it myself. I really think if I could control myself things would end alot sooner than later. I need to stop pushing, pleading and pursuing, looking for reassurances. I need to just be happy with the status quo and back off. I really need to practice self-control!!!
I wish I had time for details on my sitch right now, but I don't. Suffice to say that patience and DB seemed to do the trick for me. There is still a LONG road ahead for me, but a corner was turned for sure.
All I can say is that if you can reign in the need to push, control and R talk, things CAN work themselves out so-to-speak.
Thank you for your continued support! It really means alot to me. As for your sitch, I am so happy that your W opened up to you - for the first time! As for the OM, that is a little scary but I know you can handle it. Take Care
For your sleep I recommend you pick up some Kava Kava, Valerian Root and some chamomile tea (Sleepytime by Celestial Seasonings is very good). Also, Melatonin has worked quite well for me. Avoid OTC sleep aids as they actually have caffeine in them. Drink your tea as you read a book before retiring. If you use sweetener, use Splenda in place of sugar, because the sugar will jack you up.
I would take one melatonin tab an hour before bedtime, make a big cup of tea (I use 2 bags) and curl up with a good book. It's also good to get some soothing music. I have a small cd player next to my bed, and when I'm ready to turn off the lights I turn the cd on low with some soft, calming music (no Metallica!). Last night I listened to Herbie Mann, a jazz flutist. Didn't get through the first song... Target and WalMart have racks of this type of music that you can sample. Chopin is quite wonderful, I might add. Koto and flute is good. Native American music is good also. Usually something with no lyrics, as the mind tends to want to focus on the lyrics and keep you awake.
Hope this helps.
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
David, Thanks for the advice. What exactly is Kava Kava, Valerian Root and Melatonin? Are these teas also? Walmart and Target are both on my list today so if I know what exactly I am looking for I won't be wandering aimlessly (like I am in my life - lol)
Also, music without lyrics is an excellent idea cause I swear every song I hear is about love and makes me sad.
As for reading, this is something I absolutely love to do, unfortunately I have lately only been reading relationship books which only bogles my mind even more.
