RB, you could be right. I do think that the OW is is influencing him. He says that they talk but there is nothing going on and he doesn't love her. Frankly, I don't believe it. I went a little crazy regarding her. I know she is unmarried and has a 10 year old D. I said, "Oh, she is so perfect? How did she end up with a baby and no husband.....? I know it was mean and definitely not the way I should have DB'd but I was so hurt. These words cut me to the core. It was like he took a knife and stabbed me in the heart and just kept twisting.
He says he wants to stay in a platonic relationship and raise our children together. I told him I don't know if I can do that. It's like he wants me to be the one to leave and end things. It would take the guilt off of him. I am so torn. OT would probably blast me about now, but as hurt as I am I love this man and hope he would consider talking to a professional to see if he can get over these feelings. You all probably think I am a complete idiot, but I just can't give up.
Mama, I TRULY don't mean to belittle your pain but I have given up SEVERAL times throughout this, and so has everyone else. So too has all our spouses said things that cut to our core and basically "ended things for REAL". My W has said on several occasions that she had NO need to work on us and NO desire to explore if we could work things out. Funny how she never as mentioned divorce or seperation other than to deny she wants that.
I TRULY feel for you right now. I know how bad it hurts and in all actuality, this is probably one of those times to wait a few days and then evaluate if you really DO want to throw in the towel. I suspect you will not, but if you add up all the feelings/facts/time/circumstances and decide you are done, then that is a decision you will have to make. I emplore you not to make it based on one conversation.
In DB and counseling too, we are told to listen and when we do become good at listening, expect to hear some REALLY tough things. However, we are cautioned that it's when we start to hear those things that it means we are getting to the heart of the issue and to be strong through it. I am by no means excusing him calling you names or anything like that. What I am saying is that this conversation, as bad as it was, gave you some information and instight to him that it sounds like you didn't have before. I'll leave it at that. Again, I am truly sorry you had to go through that.
Quote: that is when I thought the issue was the A and the OW. At this point, I cannot blame anything on the affair. My H has apparently felt this way for years.
Um, now IF you were still DBing, I WOULD say that, well, it never really was about the A and now you are getting to the real underlying issues in your marriage. Without getting to those issues, and finding a way to resolve them, you would never have had a complete, healthy marriage again.
Please, gather yourself and THEN make decisions. I am thinking of you.
GH
P.S. Stop that crap about not deserving us... let HIM think that way about you for now, don't YOU start!
Quote: Um, now IF you were still DBing, I WOULD say that, well, it never really was about the A and now you are getting to the real underlying issues in your marriage. Without getting to those issues, and finding a way to resolve them, you would never have had a complete, healthy marriage again.
Your absolutely right, the affair was just a bandaid. He still continues this morning to say that he is willing to talk to someone. My fear is not finding a solution based therapist. I feel he needs to work past this and get to the real reason he feels this way. Lots of people do stupid things in their life, but if they have changed how can you continue to hold that against them? Of course I regret lots of things and I have to live with myself everyday. I have apologized for the things I have done in my past and told him that I hope someday he can forgive me and accept me for who I am today. I don't know anymore.
But he DID vent to you, right? He vented, said nasty things, but through all that, communicated things you NEEDED to hear in order to understand where he is coming from, right? This would be better if it happened in front of a therapist, but the fact that you are getting the info is good in a way.
As for being afraid of not finding a solution based therapist, I don't know how important that is (sorry Michelle). My therapist is decidedly NOT solution based but she has been extremely helpful in helping me work through things. I think you need to try to find a therapist, check them out best you can, interview them and then just GO. It seems like H may be ready for that, and if you wait too long, he may decide not to do it.
Don't let your H's harsh words affect your self-esteem. You are a good person and you know it.
Your H's reaction is pretty bizarre. I suspect that his bitter hostile disgust about your sexual history is really projection. There is something about himself that he cannot face that disgusts him completely, likely related to sex but perhaps not. If I had to guess, I'd guess that he has a heavy internet and/or phone sex addiction OR (given his very rigid judging moral outlook) that he is gay and can't live with himself OR that he is lost somewhere in a huge mess of lies related to finances.
He is clearly over the edge and something within himself is putting him there. You making out with someone 20+ years ago is not the problem.
You are right that the problem isn't OW, it never was. But, the problem isn't you either. Don't let him redirect his inner hatred of himself onto you. It won't help anyone, it will only hurt. He needs to find whatever it is in himself that he hates and confront it head on.
You need to take about a million times more space than you have already so that he cannot keep blaming his problems on you.
OT's take is somewhat different than mine, and only somewhat because I should have said that I didn't think you should BELIEVE what he is saying, just realize that it does give you insight into how/what he is thinking.
I think she may be right about his projection and issues that he may have, but I still think that he will need to possibly work through it while still blaming you (and I mean in counseling sessions) until he can get to the root of the issue, whatever that may be.
The space suggestion seems to be a sound one, as usual from OT. So, yea, what she says!
BTW, that was a short trip away from DB-land, lol. Nice to see you still hanging in there. Hey, we ALL get that way from time to time. Trust me, I was there yesterday, I just managed to walk away from the ledge instead of being talked down from it. There have been times in the past, and I'm sure more in the future where I will have to be coaxed into believing this thing is worth doing for one more day...
Quote: And yes, there may be an element of truth to what he's saying... but I doubt that is the whole issue or even a large part of the issue...
Right again. I was talking to my girlfriend that knows my situation. She totally doesn't buy it. My H was out drinking before this all took place, she thinks he was with OW and OW is now putting pressure on him to leave me. He is being pulled in two different directions. He knows I am desperate to save our M. Therefore he can stay in our home, that and the fact the we are broke so he can't afford to leave. How can he call me a whore when his girlfriend has a child with no husband and is having an affair with a married man with 3 kids? Isn't that a little strange? Do I kick him out of the house or get back on the DB wagon?
When she gives him what he wants (a clear end to their old romantic R -- she really has to let go and not remain in the old M by herself). Once he is left with his self-loathing, he will figure out that her past is not the cause.
It will likely make him very angry. WASs spouses think everything will be made better by getting rid of LBS, but this doesn't fix things. The WAS will likely even be mad at LBS because leaving LBS didn't fix things.
Mamabear and her H are not in a place where it is appropriate to try to work things out. The sexual history issue is one that needs to be resolved between H and W. They are not effectively H and W. No amount of rational discussion will persuade her H that she is not the source of his unhappiness, that abandoning a real M with her is not the magic pill to cure him. She has to let him try it for himself to see that it doesn't work.
Of course, when he figures out what does work, it may or may not be compatible with an M with Mamabear.
Quote: Please, gather yourself and THEN make decisions.
This is probably the most important piece of advice here.
When someone gets 'slapped' the first thing they tend to do is slap right back. You must resist the temptation to 'slap back' and think about the situation. To me, this is the real meaning of 'turn the other cheek.' Don't respond emotionally at the moment. Take time time to think about your response, or 'gather yourself' as Grasshopper says. I tend to agree: you and H are getting to the heart of the matter, and it hurts like a MF, but it's necessary. It's like lancing a boil: the pressure is off now. You'll be able to talk about it in a while. I'd take the advice here, back off a bit and let the dust settle.
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
