I'm back again looking for answers

[RBinBR]

GH, I'm glad you wrote a thoughtful post. You bring up a lot of good points and it's clear that you really care about helping Mama (as I do). However, I wanted to respond to a few of the things that you wrote.

First of all, if I understand correctly, Mama, you read Michele's book in November and have been attempting to apply DB principles since then.

That makes for 5 months now, and you say in your first post on this thread that the situation has not improved. To my reading, it appears to be getting worse, but perhaps that's an incorrect impression.

One of the chapters in DR is "Stop Going Down Cheeseless Tunnels." What you are doing is not working. You therefore need to look for a significant 180 to do. In her Experiment and Monitor Results chapter, Michele states that you should re-evaluate what you are doing every two weeks or so to see if what you are doing is having an impact.

if he's anything like my W, the guilt is eating him up.

GH, my W is also eaten up with guilt, but I see no evidence of that with Mama's H. Mama, what do you think?

One of the changes her "loving" things, and I am assuming that she is refering to doing certain things that she didn't do before, hence 180's, could make in him, is a more loving, respetful approach to her. Eventually it could lead to him making the decision you say he doesn't have to make. Sure, there could also be no effect at all, but if she is truly just being herself, or making these efforts as a way to grow, then I think it's still fine but it's a tight line to walk. It's up to each of us to be honest with ourselves and decide if we are being codependent or independently loving.

Mama, I first want to say that I'm not sitting here at my computer and judging you as co-dependent. But ordering him to leave when you don't mean it, and then allowing him to stay, is not DB'ing and it will not cause him to respect you more.

Also, I'm very unsure that doing "loving things" for your H is a 180, as it seems to me that you have done this in the past. In fact, it might be pursuing your H, which is not something you want to do.

Again, why would she, or I want pressure to be the reason they change? I don't want to pressure my W into staying. If she wants to go, knowing all the things she is leaving behind, including a husband who loved her to the end and took steps to grow and understand his role in all this, then so be it. I won't use finances, the kids, my pain, her vows, parents, friends, or anything else to pressure her into staying. That's not to say I will help her avoid the ramifications of those things. I am just not going to actively use them against her. The fewer games I can play, the better.

GH, I haven't played "money games" with my W at all, and I didn't suggest that Mama do so. I don't know where you got that idea. My W wanted her fantasy life with her OM. Allowing her to experience the financial consequences of that decision is not a "game;" it is allowing her to experience reality and recognize that the reality of supporting a bum who is now going to declare bankruptcy is very different from living with a husband who provides a good income for his family.

That isn't ME pressuring her -- that's life pressuring her, and I don't see any reason why her disillusionment with the OM is a bad thing. Let's face it: if most of the OP's we see were perfect people, our S's would have little reason to come back to us.

For Mama to decide to separate herself from her H and force him to accept the consequences of that would not be a "game" either, nor would it be some kind of unfair pressure. She has asked him to leave at times and obviously considered that it might be best for her.

What I am telling you, Mama, is that if you do decide that it is best for you, the DO IT and don't worry that he may have financial problems as a result. It isn't up to you to protect him from financial problems, and if he does have them, that's great.