Mama, if you don't mind, I would like to respond to RB too, in hopes to offer you a little more.
Quote: Mama, he doesn't have to choose between you and her -- he can have you both. Trying to be better than her won't accomplish anything.
First of all, I totally agree with the idea that trying to be better than her is a useless exercise. Mama, be your best. This is not about her. That is one cliche that I do believe in when it comes to our approach to self improvment. We do not do it to compete with the OP, we do it to compete with the person we became and don't like anymore! That said, right now I suppose her H does think he's got some self-regenerating cake, and I think Mama can and will do things to change that a bit, but if he's anything like my W, the guilt is eating him up. It seems like he is acting more like someone in turmoil than someone really ready to move on. Well, don't they all. Also, by saying he doesn't have to choose right now simply because she isn't forcing him to makes the assumption that the DB/DR way can't work. Forcing a resolution to an A IS in the cards, even with DR, but it's not necessarily the only way an A ends, nor should it be done before the LBS is ready to accept the "bad" outcome of their spouse going the other way. If so, why are we all here. Just throw out the ultimatum on day one and take whatever happens.
Quote: You aren't going to get anything in return, because he can have his cake and eat it too.
Ok. We say this all the time but what does it mean? Does it mean that NO progress can be made while feelings or actions reguarding the OP are present? My point is that the whole goal of DB is to affect change in another because of YOUR changes. One of the changes her "loving" things, and I am assuming that she is refering to doing certain things that she didn't do before, hence 180's, could make in him, is a more loving, respetful approach to her. Eventually it could lead to him making the decision you say he doesn't have to make. Sure, there could also be no effect at all, but if she is truly just being herself, or making these efforts as a way to grow, then I think it's still fine but it's a tight line to walk. It's up to each of us to be honest with ourselves and decide if we are being codependent or independently loving.
Quote: Demanding that he respect the sanctity of your marriage is not "mean" -- not by a long shot. He has already disrupted the family ... the only question is: what are you going to do about it?
"Loving" someone so much that he can treat you however he wants isn't love, it's co-dependency. Is what is happening right now good for your family? Is everyone as happy and well-adjusted right now as they were before his affair? I imagine not. So, if you really love your family, you'll take action to try to improve it.
Actually, RB, in my case, things are quite a bit better for my family now than 3 months ago, or even 1 year ago. This thing has made ME examine my anger issues with my kids, my lack of understanding about a LOT in life and of course, rexamine my interaction with my W, all of which has led, in true DB fashion, to a greatly improved home life. Am I saying that this A that my W may or may not be continuing is actually helpful? F#$k no! Does the A need to end if it's still going on? Hell yes! Would I rather have it be today than a month from now? Hell yes. Would I involve my kids directly, my extended family directly and pull all kinds of people into this thing just because I can't wait a little while longer to see what is possible wihout all that? Hell no! For Mama, who's situation is different from mine a bit, she will have to make these decisions for herself. What I am saying is that through the process of DB, I have made GREAT improvments in myself as a person and a father, that will also make me a much better partner for my W or anyone else should our M not work out. Those things are possible EVEN with the OM still being in the picture. What is not possible is true reconciliation but that can wait. The idea of her needing to take action to improve "it" is really just saying she needs to put herself first, but I think that can be done in context, without sacrificing things that are truly important to HER even if they are not important to HIM.
Quote:
No, actually this is a huge advantage for you. My W can't afford to leave either. The financial pressure of living on her own is one reason that she was sobbing last night to me about how depressed and stressed she is right now and why she said she's going to try to end it with the OM. Unless life for your H becomes uncomfortable in some respect, there is no reason for his actions to change.
Again, why would she, or I want pressure to be the reason they change? I don't want to pressure my W into staying. If she wants to go, knowing all the things she is leaving behind, including a husband who loved her to the end and took steps to grow and understand his role in all this, then so be it. I won't use finances, the kids, my pain, her vows, parents, friends, or anything else to pressure her into staying. That's not to say I will help her avoid the ramifications of those things. I am just not going to actively use them against her. The fewer games I can play, the better.
Mama,
I agree with RB to a certain extent after all that. Having a plan is crucial, even if you revise it sometimes. You have to have something to base your actions on, and only you can decide what that plan will be. Only you can decide if the things you do, or allow to be done, are allowing you to maintain self respect. The last thing any of us want is to come out of this not only without a spouse, but no self-esteem either.
