I agree with GEL that you cannot reason with her. Logic will not work. You must simply state what is not acceptable and leave it at that. Do not begin your boundary statement with an "if," unless that "if" precedes a statement about her behavior, e.g.,"If I see you or hear of you physically striking one of the girls ever again, your bags will be on the curb."

Regarding whether the older girls are in a position to know if they need therapy: most people who are resistant to therapy (this is just my observation) are resistant for a couple of reasons (there may be more).

First, because they think the therapist is going to try to change their mind about something. I have observed that people think therapists have an agenda, that therapists think their job is to persuade you to see the error of your ways and come around to their way of thinking. So the girls may think that the therapy process will be all about forcing them to understand their mother and forgive her before they are ready. Or they may fear that they will be forced to say ugly things about their mother and hate her. They may think that whatever they say will become public knowledge to you and their mom, and there may be things they need to say with the assurance that neither one of you will ever hear them. And they may also fear that if they go to your therapist, that that therapist is already automatically on "your side," and that their opinions won't count.

The second reason people resist, IMHO, is that they see therapy as punishment, or at the very least, as a sign that they have failed at something. Like a tutor-- if you were doing well in class, you wouldn't need a tutor. It's someone to help you because you're too dumb, inept, stupid, weak to help yourself. To HAVE to go to therapy is an admission of failure, it's humiliating to parade your mistakes, icky feelings, hateful thoughts, creepy shadowy wishes, etc. in front of a stranger who you are POSITIVE is going to judge you.

I remember an astonishing exchange that took place on the Phil Donohue show many many years ago. I forget what the topic was, but it had to do with a couple that was having some kind of problem. The guest suggested that perhaps the husband and the relationship would benefit if the husband were to consult a psychiatrist. Phil had this HUGE outburst: "Why should HE have to go to a psychiatrist??? HE didn't do anything WRONG!!" This supposedly enlightened man saw consulting a psychiatrist as PUNISHMENT.

So I agree that your kids do not know what's good for them in this case. They may seem very "well-adjusted" on the surface, but they will be grappling with the fallout from this situation for the rest of their lives...

It could start with the three (or four) of you going together and you could ask them to go for YOU, because YOU need help, and it would help you if they would go.

I must say, you ARE the man-o-steel for letting us gang up on you this way. (((((bube)))))