Lil, you're absolutely right about D14 and the dog(s). Trust me, I'm very concerned about that and I am addressing it. It's just beyond the scope of what I want to get into here.
Nothing new to report from last night. W isn't speaking to any of us. D14 is still staying at my mother's. She came home for a little while last night, but told me that she was afraid of her mother. I helped her get a few things and sent her back to my mother. I told her that things would settle down in a few days - one way or another. It's spring break, so my mom is off and D14 is doing fine over there. I hate to say this because of the way it sounds, but having D14 gone is just one fewer thing for me to worry about.
Thanks to everybody for the well wishes. I'll keep you posted.
Karen, D14 isn’t in C right now. We may be heading there though. The girls are my primary concern here and I’m talking, listening, and keeping a very close eye on them. I have little doubt that at least some of us will be in C before long, but I’m the only one talking to the C at the moment.
GEL, I wasn’t home. I leave for work no later than 5:00AM and this happened around 7:30. And let me reassure you about the other things you said too. I’m not going to apologize. Like I said, I have a long history and the idea is nagging at me – but I will not apologize when I know that I was not in the wrong. I have in the past, but that’s over. I’m also not worried about what she’s telling other people. I’m beyond worrying about something like that. She can tell them anything she likes; I don’t care. I know the truth. My kids know the truth. And anybody who knows me and actually believes the things she’s saying was never really a friend of mine in the first place.
And FWIW, I have stopped telling her that I don’t want her to leave. The last time it was mentioned, I said, “It’s your decision.” After the latest email from the C, I plan on changing that response to, “Do you need any help packing or loading up your stuff?”
1. Why didn't W know that D14 was sick? 2. Why didn't D18 stop W from wailing on her little sister? 3. Why are you stepping into W's shnit again and trying to rescue her from herself?
What if you were to merely answer "oh?" to her declarations of leaving? She's trying to get you to play the game that you have always played, namely that you will reel her back in and thereby assume the responsibility for what happened in the first place. My advice is to say nothing...do not offer to help her pack, do not beg her to stay, simply be willing to listen to her tell you of her plans and otherwise avoid contact with her, unless it is to politely inquire about her progress on leaving the home.
While your D was out of line in kicking the dog, her rage is certainly understandable. I think the greater crime here is that SHE was abused by her own mother. I'm sure that your local child abuse authorities would agree and would have D removed from the home.
I’m guessing that D14 caught whatever it was that D14 had over the weekend. That’s why I included the part about her being sick. D14 didn’t say that she wasn’t feeling well when W sent her out to walk the remaining dog. D14 didn’t barf until W had taken the dog from her and sent her back inside. She was back in her room after throwing up when W came in, saw my mother, and hit the ceiling (again).
Quote: 2. Why didn't D18 stop W from wailing on her little sister?
I would have to speculate there, but my first guess would be fear. They have all told me that they’re afraid of their mother. She did tell W to stop, but she didn't intervene.
Quote: 3. Why are you stepping into W's shnit again and trying to rescue her from herself?
I don’t know. I’m trying not to. Don’t you think I’m doing even a little better? I haven’t argued with W about her leaving; I’ve just said that I don’t want her to leave when she started tossing around these allegations that I’m throwing her out. As I said in my last post, I’m not even doing that any longer. In all honesty, I hope she does leave. I do sincerely want us to work things out, but I think a little separation would do us all a lot of good right now. The girls need to feel safe. W needs to get a grip. And I could sure stand a little less stress myself. My doctor would probably have a cow if she saw my blood pressure. I NEED the break.
Quote: What if you were to merely answer "oh?" to her declarations of leaving?
I can try that, but my inclination is to just not respond at all.
Quote: She's trying to get you to play the game that you have always played, namely that you will reel her back in and thereby assume the responsibility for what happened in the first place.
That’s why I was responding with the simple statement that I didn’t want her to leave. I have no intention of trying to “reel her back in” in any way. I was just telling her that to make sure that there was no doubt in anyone’s mind as to whom had made the decision.
Quote: My advice is to say nothing...do not offer to help her pack, do not beg her to stay, simply be willing to listen to her tell you of her plans and otherwise avoid contact with her, unless it is to politely inquire about her progress on leaving the home.
My plan exactly.
I agree with your remarks about the abuse 100%. Kicking the dog was way, way, way out of line, but I do understand the rage. I understand that she feels helpless and defenseless. I understand that the dog was just a surrogate target. Like I told Lil, we’re addressing that separately. I also feel that all of the girls are emotionally abused and D14 is physically abused as well. Let me give you one more quote before I go. This is lifted verbatim from an email that D18 sent to the friend with whom W is planning on staying (one of her rescue group friends). As with the C, I’ve only taken out names. She sent it because she wanted this friend to hear the other side of the story.
Quote: I was back in my bedroom and heard her screaming at D14 about calling my grandma and heard hitting. When she gets mad she always hits D14. When I was little she hit me. Like I said, she has a very bad temper. Her dad was the same way. I ran out of my room and yelled at her to leave D14 alone and said that I was the one that had called my grandma. She continued to yell at D14 and told her to get out of the house and never come back.
And thanks for answering. I do truly appreciate your input. Since you’re married to me, I value your input over just about anybody here.
hey sweetheart, Of course you're doing better. A TON better in fact. I am just horrified at the thought of your (my, lol) girls being abused. Horrified, Bube.
I think your plan is a good one and it sounds like it will be a whole-house effort and that's always good. Other people need to know that your kids want her gone as well and WHY. Not because "bube poisoned their minds against me" but because she's abusive.
That snippet from your daughters' e-mail just makes me ache for all of you; it also reinforces....all of you need a break from your W. For your D's well being IMPO you need to facilitate your W's expedient departure. She is responsible for her actions...make her be responsible for the consequences of those actions as well.
Let me just put it as bluntly as I can...it's not safe for your D's to have her living under the same room as them....and it's not fair for your daughters to have to leave THEIR home because she can't/won't control herself.
I know you said you would simply not respond to her about her talking about leaving, I'm of the frame of mind now that you need to pack her bags and leave them outside. Show her you are serious Bube, she's welcome back home....but her behavior MUST change. I guess for me waiting to see what she does....still puts the ball firmly in her court and leaves you not taking control of the situation. I believe, and others may not agree with me, that if you will take the situation firmly in hand it's going to make an impression. Sure, she's likely not to be happy about it....but then Bube, as someone with NPD, it's all about her anyway in her mind. Nothing you guys will do will make her happy....so do what will give all of you peace of mind.
All of you are helping my resolve. Thanks, that’s why I came back.
GEL, you’re right of course. I reread the snippet I quoted from the C. In three lines of text he told me four times to make her leave. SpinelessBube was saying, “I don’t want you to leave.” DevelopingSpineBube was thinking, “No comment.” Man-o-SteelBube is thinking more along the lines of, “Do you need help packing?”
You know, as recently as yesterday I was hoping that W would reconsider and stay to work things out. Now that she’s stuck to it for a couple of days and I’ve had some time to get used to the idea, I’m at the point where I really do hope she does leave. As I’ve said, I do sincerely want us to work this thing out. I just think we NEED for her to away from both me and the girls for a while if there is any hope of fixing things. I’m NOT giving up on the M, but I want her out. As for the distinction between letting her leave and making her leave, I’m not sure about what I need to do. The C said to toss her out, but in spite of my improvements, I honestly don’t know if I can do that. Maybe I need to call the C this afternoon.
Here's something else to chew on... (as if you needed anything else)-- right now her leaving or not leaving seems like some kind of final, irreversable, armageddon sort of thing. But I think what you're going to wind up dealing with is keeping her away. Or only letting her come back on your terms. I predict she will go away for a weekend or a week and then keep raising the emotional level and the emotional stakes by calling, coming back to get stuff, needing this, needing that, checking on things, harassing the kids, and generally hanging around. Who else in the world is going to give her the narcissistic buzz that she gets from her own family? Who else will let her occupy the queen of the world chair?
So getting her to leave is a very small speed bump IMHO. Dealing with her staying gone/coming back will be the greater and stormier challenge.
We're behind ya with prayers and positive thoughts!
(And not to beat this to death-- oops! poor choice of words-- D14's desire to lash out at her mom by kicking the dog is absolutely understandable, no argument there, and if she had struck your W (the offender) or her sister (her "peer"), I would be less traumatized and nauseated. For a young FEMALE to beat up on a weaker creature is a gigantic fluorescent red flag. There should be no "if" about her seeing a C, and the sooner the better. Wanting to kick the dog is one thing-- actually kicking the dog shows she is out of control. What if there had been a loaded gun at hand. I seem to be hearing from you and the others that her behavior was "understandable," and that maybe she should be punished or something and that will be that. Her feelings, desires, rage, etc.are "understandable"; her behavior is outside the bounds of tolerable, healthy, "understandable" behavior. I don't mean to be a PITA-- I confess this is my single biggest hot button. Those Columbine-type kids usually start out by abusing their pets... and their parents thought what they did was unthinkable/unimaginable, too. She doesn't need punishment or a talking to-- anyone who hurts a pet is suffering intolerable pain. Hurting a weaker creature gives momentary relief from the pain (like the girls who cut themselves to gain temporary relief from emotional pain). She needs somewhere to go with that pain-- not to you, but to a professional. I don't think she can pull herself out of this hole on her own. Lil curls up in a fetal position, licking her paws and cleaning her whiskers.)
Good for you. And good for that C for being so direct and leaving no room to question what he thinks you should do.
D14 I agree needs C. Her behavior is simular to my S13 he has a tendencie to lash out at things that he feels jealous of and has devoloped behavorial issues in the course of the last two years. I wish I would have recognized the warning signs of his lashing out when it started and maybe I would not be dealing with the juvinile court system right now. He is being evaluated at present to determine how far his issues go and what is at the root of them. From that a appropriate C plan will be made.
It does not sound bad that you are relieved D14 is out of the house right now. It is one less thing you have to deal with and one less thing she has to deal with. Your mom sounds like a trooper!
Glad the dogs are going also. Maybe she will start seeing them as a inconvince now that you and the kids will not be there to fill that role.
Bube I know this is not what you want. But it is not forever. That is yet to be determined. But it will allow you some room to distance your self from the sitch and see it from a different prespective.
Did you ever sell that other house? I know finances are hard for you and this will be a further drain but not a good reason to not walk this road.
Bube everything happens for a reason. Hopefully soon you will find the reason behind what you are dealing with.
