I don't really understand how it puts blame on her other than I guess her feeling like I am always expecting more and she has to be the one to deny it?
With XH, I had a STACK of books on sex that I wanted to read and work with to help improve our SL. He never would. This in my mind made our problem HIS problem because I was open and wanting to work on things while he wasn't. This kept me in my comfort zone and I didn't have to face my own contributions to the problem.
Ok, so how does this apply to me? Are you saying that because I want to work on it and she "doesn't" (I put that in quotes becuase either the doesn't want to, or doesn't feel she needs to) that it is HER problem? I know that's not what you are saying, but...
To add a bit to this, my W and I have never really been able to talk about sex. I have tried, and she is always really bashful about it. When I say I talked to her about it, I mean just really trying to find different things she liked, etc. Always respectful, but sometimes playful if warrented. She just never really wanted to talk about it. NOW, in the bedroom was a different story. She was never bashful about what she wanted or needed DURING the act, it was just outside the bedroom she was. So maybe I just need to initiate ML and then start the conversation...
Anyway, again, thank you for this. I really consider my understanding of the little I do about my REAL situation a blessing and you led me to it. I was there, I just didn't really know it I guess.
Ok, so how does this apply to me? Are you saying that because I want to work on it and she "doesn't" (I put that in quotes becuase either the doesn't want to, or doesn't feel she needs to) that it is HER problem?
No. It was NOT just my H's problem, but I got to feel that way by using the books to feel like I was open and capable of intimacy while he was not. It was BS. I had my own huge intimacy problems that would have been obvious if he'd embraced the books.
My question to you is -- does giving backrubs and kissing W's neck let you feel like you are open and capable of intimacy while she is not?
If so, then giving them to her might be doing a lot more for YOU than for her because it protects you from dealing with your own intimacy issues.
Quote: My question to you is -- does giving backrubs and kissing W's neck let you feel like you are open and capable of intimacy while she is not?
Um, well, the obvious answer is yes, but I think it's simply due to me, well, being open to it and she's not for whatever reason. I do not speculate that the reason is realated to her GENERAL openness to intimacy, just her openness to it right now.
I DON'T feel like "well, I'm doing my part and I can't help it if she's not open to this...". I feel that the back rubs are a way to "keep in touch" and I really don't intend the pun, but not a doorway to something else that she's closing every time. Does that make sense.
And, as for me addressing my issues, well, it's pretty much all I can think about right now. I need to turn that into something productive.
Well, bad moment, bad GH. It was innocent I guess, but bad never-the-less. Basically I was talking to my W on the phone just now and at the end of the call, I noticed she was talking strange and there was a lot of noise. So, I asked without thinking about it"where are you." Oops. Been a LONG time since I asked that. She paused and responded "Out." I really thought about it after I hung up to see if I really meant to ask her where she was because I was paranoid about her and the OM, or if it was just curiosity about all the noise, etc. I REALLY honestly think it was curiosity, but damn it if it didn't lead to the same feelings.
You know my mind is working...don't worry OT, I will stop. Like I said to many others in the last couple days, I don't KNOW anything, and even posting this is silly, but my neck hairs are raised over it and I just wanted to vent I guess.
By the time anyone can comment, I will be over it.
Now we can go back to talking about why I can't kiss...
And, as for me addressing my issues, well, it's pretty much all I can think about right now. I need to turn that into something productive.
GH, I think its very clear that YOU ARE. It is wonderful and really rather amazing. Whatever is going on, it doesn't seem to me as though you were at all likely to continue to use back rubs as a way to mask your own issues -- if that was going on at all.
I was just wondering what you were getting out of it up to this point. Touching someone who seems unreceptive to resentful to repulsed doesn't feel very good, so it seemed to me it had to be doing something pretty important for you in order for you to continue the behavior. It being a way to feel good about yourself as being the "open P" would be a pretty powerful motivator.
Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes I feel that all this discovery is great on one hand because it will help me in MY life, but on the other hand, I wish it didn't feel like it was lost on my W. I guess I still need to cultivate my patience.
Quote: I was just wondering what you were getting out of it up to this point.
I'm addicted to giving physically. I enjoy making her feel good. That's really what it comes down to, and she's not repulsed by THAT kind of touching from me. It seems like her aversion is towards things that seem clearly designed to lead into intimacy.
Ok, it was, and it was. Don't know why I thought YOU of all people would have a problem with that. I guess I forgot you respected directness. Well, I was that at least. As for her reaction, I don't have a CLUE why she would be that way, and IF she was going to have to be that way, why answer at all? She goes for hours not answering, why do it this time? Of course, I have SEVERAL clues, but none I want to dwell on. I'm SURE I will get a call in a few minutes or before she picks the boys up from school, explaining where she was, etc. That's her way. Will it be a lie? Who knows, but NOW you know why I am unwilling to explore (at least with her anyway) these issues I am discovering. Until she recommits to us and understands that for her to build back my trust, she will not really be able to just be "out" without me thinking, well just thinking, then I will be unwilling to fully invest in her again. It's just how it is.
I will continue to work on me, not dewll on what she is doing and go on with my life. She's still in it by default and there are things I am comfortable doing with her, even without all the "rest" of our R (whatever it is right now). I will continue to do those things and the rest will have to wait.
Quote: I'm SURE I will get a call in a few minutes or before she picks the boys up from school, explaining where she was, etc. That's her way.
Gee, just got off the phone. What a surprise. She said when I called before she was in a store where it was hard to hear (hence the strange talking and loud noises...and wind..and traffic...and rudeness) and just wanted to make sure I got to say whatever it was I called for...ok, well at least I know my W THAT much...lol.
Anyway, it's done now. Back to my sexual ineptitude...
