Ok, it's time for the daily OT moment...lol.
As usual, response in kind is due.
Quote: W can't operate in an R in the way you describe unless you facilitate it. I again urge you to take some ownership here and set some boundaries as to what is acceptable behavior from anyone in an R with you
I have to clarify something and maybe get come clarification from you.
As I have said a hundred times here, I am gone from the house lot but there is a difference between what I used to do and now. When I would go out before, I would say things like "If you don't want me to go, I will try to get out of it" or "If you don't ever want me to go, I will just quit" and things like that. Even when I did go, I would make sure to act like I didn't want to and when I came home I would never say I had fun in order not to haver her be jealous. I made her totally responsible for my happiness and even tried to make sure she was responsible for her own unhappiness by basically setting it up for her to have "given me permission" so she was somehow not supposed to be unhappy if I was gone. How pathetic was that? No wonder...
So now, when I have something to do, or want to do something, I just tell her I am going to do it. Also, I don't downplay it. If she asks, or I happen to mention what I am doing, I am always positive if I can be. I love what I do and now I let it show. I was REALLY stupid of me to try to as you say "micro-manage" my W's emotions like that. I really try not to anymore, but as you point out, I still do.
NOW, after all that, do you get the sense that I really am playing along (and I know it's just one example but it is indicative of the kinds of things I am doing different), or is it more that I am living in a house with someone, sharing the duties of the household and taking care of two kids together. There is just an unavoidable amount of enmeshment that will happen in that case.
Quote: Back to the ring... If you put on a tie one day because it reminded you of a great day with your W and then she criticized the tie and gave you angry looks for wearing the tie, just how able do you think you would be right now to tenderly share with her that it was really a loving thing on your part?
Ok. Point taken, but again, the ring has only been spoken of in positive terms directly. She asked me if I liked it once we got home. Even last night she said how she wishes she would have gotten a different one. She seems oblivious as to how I may perceive it. That's why I am half convinced it's not about him, and now 100% convinced I should not say I feel otherwise.
Quote: She doesn't trust you or her feelings for you. If I am correct that the ring was a positive sign from her, then she took an emotional risk and made herself a bit vulnerable to you. If so, it did NOT pay off for her and she certainly would not be up for taking even greater risks by telling you directly the meaning of the ring to her. I mean, she already pretty much did when she told you it was because of the other ring that YOU GOT HER.
The fact that she mentioned the other ring needs to be put in context. She mentioned that ring and said she ALWAYS wanted a white gold or silver version. She did not necessarily say it had anything to do with me buying it for her, etc. Anyway, who really cares, it's all speculation and I am trying to be done with analyzing this. It is what it is and I will not waste any more time on it. It's for my own good.
Quote: OM is NOT the problem. The problem is your Ws unwillingness to committ to an exclusive M with you and to work on it. She is unwilling to do so for her own reasons. Those reasons are still there or OM wouldn't still be there. Your W will have a very hard time cutting ties with OM because of what it will mean to her about herself when she does so. Stringing him along as a friend or BF will allow her to avoid her guilt and pain about him and make her feel less stupid, cheap, and shallow. As long as you tolerate this, stringing him along is the path of least psychic resistance.
Yep. I know this as truth. Of course this is the easiest thing for her to do, which brings up issues of enabling and such with me. True as well is the fact that to "tolerate" this while working on myself is the DB way and the way I have chosen. I may choose another way sooner or later. We'll see.
Quote: But, I agree with you that there does come a time when YOU need to change what you are doing, which may include no longer tolerating OM. This is YOUR CHOICE. If you make the choice not to tolerate OM when it is less painful for her to go with him, she will go. That is a risk you either choose to take or not to take. If you tolerate OM beyond a certain point, it will destroy your R. That is a risk you either choose to take or not to take.
Ah, and it's realizing where that point beyond which irreparable damage is done is the key, is it not? That said, I have seen some people, men and women alike, tolerate MUCH more than I think I could ever tolerate from their WAS and still have things get better, if not reconcile completely.
Fact is that I know the time will come when the only change I feel left open to me to make IS not tolerating the OM. At some point, like I said earlier, I will feel that I can no longer grow and be happy in my R with my W because of the OM. When that day comes, I am sure I will do what I need to do. I do not see that day on the horizon yet.
Quote:
There is nothing attractive about a P who doesn't require decency and respect in an R.
Well, in some ways, going back to my first point, tolerating an affair continuing is then VERY unattrative, now isn't it? Now, if that's all she sees in me, or I define myself by that single decision, then I would agree, but I do not, and I hope she does not either. I am not my decisions, I am me, and there is a WHOLE lot more to me that is attractive.
I expect and demand respect in just about every other aspect of our relationship. I won't lie. Obviously this decision to tolerate this A weighs on me, but I do not think it defines me.
Thnak you as always for your ideas. They always make me thing, whether I like it or not!
