Quote: Echoing Hairdog, I think this is an excellent reply too! I’m wondering if it could be made even more powerful by combining it with Schanrch’s observation that the rejection from our spouse is phrased to make us vulnerable rather than him/her, kwim?
IMO, it is better to "drop the rope" in a confident manner when you are put on the defensive in this manner than to try and convince your spouse that they should make themselves vulnerable. For instance, if your spouse rejected your initiation attempt by saying something picky like "Those pajamas are not very sexy". You should say stop all initiating action and cheerfully say something like "You're right. I'll go to the mall this weekend and get some sexier pajamas. What was I thinking trying to turn you on wearing these old things!". Try very hard not to say this sarcastically.
Cheerfully pre-empt any pre-emptive strike from the offensive. For instance, Karen's hubby is grumbling in a way that makes her think he is trying to send out a no-sex signal. Instead of directly calling him on it as HP suggested, she could simply say something like "I was kind of hoping we might have sex tonight but I can tell that there is no way you could possibly be in the mood after that horrible, horrible day you had at work, so I'm going out to see a chick flick. There's beer in the fridge. Bye-Bye."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I know what you mean, but I feel like it is still assuming the other person’s responsibility by allowing them to project their vulnerability onto me. I was thinking of some thing along the lines of:
"I am feeling healthy, happy and in love with you, I will want to have sex with you on a regular basis. I could either minimize one of these factors and thus limit my sexual feelings toward you, or you could just own up to struggling with some issue today that is limiting your sexual feelings toward me. Which one do you prefer?"
or you could just own up to struggling with some issue today that is limiting your sexual feelings toward me. I think most S would get defensive at that response Cobra, no?
I think most S would get defensive at that response Cobra, no?
I agree. But sometimes, at least in my sitch, that is just what is called for. For me, being too subtle just goes whizzing right past her. Then I end up falling into that trap Corri is talking about where you compromise your own boundaries. Hopefully, as we both become more aware, a less direct approach will suffice. It is a fine line and I guess it depends on the person and the sitch.
It is a fine line and I guess it depends on the person and the sitch.
That is so true. Where's the balance between being too subtle and being too forceful? I just think the forceful approach tends to backfire. Then again, the subtle approach rarely works either. Ahhh...if only it were easy. No answers for this one.
Quote: I agree. But sometimes, at least in my sitch, that is just what is called for. For me, being too subtle just goes whizzing right past her. Then I end up falling into that trap Corri is talking about where you compromise your own boundaries. Hopefully, as we both become more aware, a less direct approach will suffice. It is a fine line and I guess it depends on the person and the sitch.
I should state for the record that it's quite probable that the reason I tend to be more subtle at this point in my relationship is that I was very unsubtle in the past. I mean I already had the big Schnarchian fight where I asked my H if he would prefer that I take a lover since he didn't want to meet my needs and I was dead serious when I suggested this. .
I've been trying to figure out why I've had a sort of negative take on the "boundaries" theory lately. I think it is because I've realized that a boundary is only a true boundary if the line in the sand isn't drawn at the limit of your resentment. If you draw your boundaries based on when you personally start to feel resentment, your boundaries are doomed to be ever shifting and easily compromised. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics but I'm more comfortable with the concept of "manners" as this term is more generally defined. You maintain your own sense of self-respect by following a code of "manners" that is in alignment with your core values rather than your feelings of the moment. For example, I believe that people have the rights of ownership over their own body, so if my H were to say to me "I never want you to hug me again.", I would honor his request. However, since I believe strongly in the value of hugs in primary sexual relationships and I'm not morally opposed to divorce, I would eventually tell him "Since I must honor your request to never be hugged and I desire strongly to be in a relationship where I am reasonably free to hug, I am filing for divorce.". Maybe I just misunderstood the whole boundaries thing, but I guess the difference in my mind is that I feel like I should always respect someone else's boundaries if I choose to stay in a relationship with them. Otherwise, I will lose self-respect.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver