Two Harpoons and a Guinness

[Stigmata]

Stig,

Tried all that. Didn't work. Got in shape, worked out, GAL, became happier/more playful, acted "as if". Absolutely ZERO difference in her.

- But you felt better about yourself, right? And you're speaking of this GAL in the past tense. This suggests maybe you stopped this. Is that right? Why? Sounds like a good way to live to me.

I know. Sometimes GAL seems to be an small victory in the M. Sometime's OP's negativity/resistance is their issue to deal with. All I know is maintaining that kind of positivity to counter OP's negativity usually makes them want to join the good guys team eventually. And you look damned good yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally.

And if you leave, W will have to "trade down" from the "Cadillac model" to an cheap imitation made in China. That fear of losing an fit, funny, happy M like this would make any F do an 180 IMO. I believe this implicitly.

On the other hand, an negative, surly, grumpy passive M whom she can easily push around with her testing and let's her get away with murder while he scrambles around doing AOS is not going to be much of an challenge to her or keep her interest and attraction for long. I also believe this implicitly. Kinda found that out the hard way.

And if this doesn't work, then the Fs have self-esteem/worth issues she needs to deal with. Cliche, yes, but true nonetheless. "Can't love someone else till you love yourself first."

It's funny you brought up sales. It's what I've done for a living my entire life, from the time I had two of my own paper routes as a kid, egg routes, mowed lawns/shoveled snow, etc., to my full-time career the past 23 years. I'm excedingly good at it. I win all of the awards.

- Yes, my BIL is an master salesman of big big ticket items. I will always defer sales psychology to those, such as yourself, who make their livelihood from selling. I have a pretty broad sales background too from early on--and not by choice in many cases.

Made to go door to door as an child selling MLM gimmick products by parents who were always into one scam or another. Then, slick-talking teen making 250 cold calls/day for telemarketing time share outfit and at top of commissions. Ugh. Never again. Not my thing.

But your analogy breaks down.

In sales, as a sales manager I teach my sellers to not take rejection personally. The self-talk is supposed to be "They are not rejecting ME, they are only rejecting my PRODUCT/SERVICE."

-Agreed. I was concentrating more on the "attitude" and less on the "product."

Well, in my marriage, and in the bedroom, the product IS me. And the rejection is personal, it is deep, and it hurts.

- I do really feel for you, man. I can't imagine the hurt the HD Ms around here face. But you are both the product and the salesman. She bought the whole package once, twice...many times and is no longer enticed for whatever reason. Gotta figure out why. You? Maybe. Her? Maybe. As you know, best place to start is via listening to the "buyer" before suggesting the solution. And if she doesn't volunteer to talk. Make her talk.

And so what I am saying is, as much as I know that intellectually much of what you say is true, we simply cannot do it anymore. Or, at least, I don't care to.

- And this is what I was going for. Bingo. The poison that undermines all of the work going on IRL and on this MB. Attitude. Believing in yourself, your W, and your M so much that failure is never an option.

As we both know, in sales it's called "burnout." And no matter how cherry your "leads" are, the sure things, the conversion rate mirrors and stays as low as the morale.

In sales, we spend our time prospecting fertile territories. When we meet with repeated rejection after rejection after rejection, we stop mining the territory. It's fruitless.

- Yes. And my apologies to all. I did not want to get into the heavy sales side of my analogy, only the attitude. And your W isn't an territory but an current and once very satisfied customer. And I know from experience that's way more than half of the battle. Ahhh, to not have to cold call this one.

Goes to one of the 12 Pillars marketing guru Jay Abraham teaches, as you probably know. The best way to generate more sales is not to primarily concentrate on mining leads but to concentrate on your current customers--to get him/her to buy more often than he/she does currently.

goes back to the ability of the salesman. And, BTW, yes, I've come across OP who have rejected the perfect product sheerly on account of an weak salesman. One fairly recently. An ad buyer on an account for (big computer maker D) listened to a pitch from young sales guy who kept mistakenly referring to the buy'ers client as its chief rival, (big computer maker I). The buyer said he really wanted to buy the product but rejected it solely due to the incompetence of the salesman.

Mojo is keyed in to what I was trying to convey, from her post. The HD Ms here are allowing the LD Fs to run up the account tab without consequence. Sooner or later they will have to pay the piper. Even if that means digging into cushions.

Or finding themselves in the hands of two large men holding them upside down shaking the change from their pockets. In NYC these kind of guys usually say they work in "collection."

A-bombs, 2x4s to the head, cage-rattling; as, again, addressed in Corri's "Stupid Question thread.

But that's the last resort and I was trying to show the escape path that may avoid this final option. The path of unshakeable self-esteem and unbending boundaries. All carried out with an air of happiness, fun, and humor if possible. And while being quite firm.

Let me finish this long post with an example of someone Ms should strive to model.

Sean Connery.

Do you think he would ever put up with an SSM for long? I doubt it. I'm guessing he has pretty hard boundaries as to what he will accept from his SO. This guy has been chased by Fs since he was 16. Heard an interview with him long time ago and he said while the Ms were at war he was delivering milk and seduced by many many lonely Fs.

In an much later interview he was asked. "Mr. Connery, why have you been so successful throughout your life with the ladies?"

His one-word answer?

"Confidence." And he repeated this one word three straight times.

-Stigmata-