Philosophy is the discipline of rational inquiry. Where do you think all the sciences came from in the first place? Criminy, have you never read Euthyprho? If not, how about any recent material on the philosophy of science?
Grrrr. I HATE it when people conflate philosophy and religion.
I'm not going to even start to debate with someone who equates scientific to superstitious. You can make a much easier leap to comparing philosophy and religion, no?? These are not polar opposites. But ok, I see your point. You are preaching to the choir here. I have great respect for philosophy, much less for religion. All I was saying is that bringing the word "God" into the mix was not a scientific explanation. I didn't just fall off the apple cart OT. I have a master's in the social sciences as well as teach at the college level, so I'm not totally pulling this out of my arse. I felt your post was a little hostile and uppity, as well as judgemental. Now it's my turn to say, I Hate that.
Oh, just wanted to add I understand there is a Philosophy of Science but there is also a Philosophy of Religion. In fact, in order to make sure I wasn't going crazy, went down into my basement and found my college text with that very title: Philosophy of Religion. As well as other text, Sociology of Religion, but that it neither here nor there. You can have a philosophy about a myriad of topics from science to religion. I am not saying philosophy and religion are one and the same.
You must have misunderstood me. I was not equating science to superstition, which would be ludicrous. My point was that the slurring together of philosophy and faith was just as ludicrous. Both run together a process that aims of rational inquiry with a belief system content with dogmatism.
I'd certainly agree that appeals to God don't belong in scientific explanations.
Apolgies that my tone was judgmental online. It certainly wasn't in real life, rather it was playful. I should have included some emoticons. I expect that in your own discipline there are everyday assumptions about it that are false which might be your own pet peeves. For instance, a popular understanding of psychology equates it with something like Freud + Tony Robbins + TA. Unfortunately, philosophy and theology are entirely disparate disciplines based on distinct methodologies that makes them even more unalike. Like I said, like science and superstition.
All I'm saying is what happened to the laws of physics, gravity,
They didnt exist. They came into being in those first few trillionths of a second.
They are laws of THIS particular universe. This universe did not exist and so neither did they. Just as we have laws of this country that are different then the laws of other countries. The Laws of a country do not exist untill it is created. the Laws of our universe may (mostly) appear absolute to us, but that doesnt mean they are in control of what created them/existed before and outside of them.
How can physics progress/ science advance to a point of expaining that which lives outside of the observers? when the rules that we are governed by, the math, ceases to be? It breaks down. We cannot see outside the dimensions that rule us.
Whatever the something/nothing/IT was that existed before the marble, is not contained by our dimensions, and our math. So that leaves some possibilities.
You are not beholden to the rules, when you are the rulemaker.
Are you saying you can't be emotional and practical at the same time? All I'm saying is what happened to the laws of physics, gravity,
They didnt exist. They came into being in those first few trillionths of a second I knew you were going to say that as soon as I pushed send. I just try to make some sense out of this crazy universe. My field stays on planet earth so all this "space" talk is really our of my jurisdiction You are not beholden to the rules, when you are the rulemaker.
Did you make that up? Rules provide us some sense of order, some consistency. Ah, but as RW Emerson said, "needless consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." That one applies nicely to religious fanatics me thinks. Maybe less so to physics.
I come back from a week of sweating and sunning and what do I see? Lots of talk about being a nerd. Hmmmm. And then you guys get going on a cosmology kick. Man, I've missed you all.
Anyway, its late so I'm not going to tackle the cosmology/nerd thing yet, or respond to some of the other posts. I should have some time tomorrow. I'll just give a synopsis of the trip for now.
First, Belize is a really interesting mix of poverty and ancient civilization comingling with wealth and modern tourism. It is so strange to see beer billboards on the road, followed by reconstructions of ruins temples built by Mayans (not their real name by the way). And you have rastafari on the islands, british english in the middle sections of the mainland, and mostly spanish on the northern parts near Mexico.
We started on Caye Caulker, a small resort island which is a 45 minute water taxi ride from Belize City. I HIGHLY recommend it as a vacation spot. Ambergris Caye with its major city of San Pedro is the hot spot, but you have to deal with lots of rowdy Americans and college kids out to get drunk and screw. Calker is MUCH more sedate. It can get rowdy in some spots, but if you don't want to do so, you can avoid it easily. We snorkeled in the Mangroves and in Shark and Ray Alley. Ever swam in 5 foot deep water with literally hundreds of Sting Ray swarming around you ranging in size from a frisbee to over 7 feet in diameter? AMAZING!!!! They have lots of great SCUBA diving there as well, but we didn't get a chance to do that because the winds were so high (8 foot swells near the reef, not good for inexperienced divers). One of the spots we snorkeled at wore me out. The current was so strong and the swells were at 3-4 feet. Its hard when every minute or so you are furiously blowing salt water out of your snorkel. If you look down and get interested in watching a shark or fish below you, it doesn't take but a few seconds and you'll look up and you have drifted 30 yards from the boat ... kinda scary, and tiring to swim back against the strong current.
We did learn a lot about the culture and geology of the reef and mangroves. I even played basketball with some of the local kids and earned a new nickname ... big focking white boy (said with a heavy rastafarian accent). LOL The students loved it and are planning on making a t-shirt for me. I don't think the W will appreciate me wearing it around the house. LOL Drank some Belikan and Coconut Rum. There is one great place called the Lazy Lizard which is right next to the "split", a place where the Island was permanently divided by Hurricane Hattie in the 60s. People always try to "swim the split" and usually get carried a hundred yards out into the sandy spillway by the strong current. Anyway, you'll have to go there and try the Lazy Lizard Semen Shot. One shot of Bailey's, one shot of Buttershot Schnaps, and one shot of Goldschlager. It'll put hair on your chest for sure. I even wrote my name and a quote on the boards that the bar is made of ... so if you want to know my real name, go to the Lazy Lizard on Caye Caulker and look for "AKA Chromo." LOL
Our next stop was the Mayan ruin of Altun Ha just off the old highway. Word of warning, there are about 3 good highways in Belize, the rest are treacherous, pothole-ridden winding paths through the dense jungle. Make SURE you don't break down out there. WOW! Altun Ha was neat, they built some of the temples according to the stars (won't go into great detail about all that unless someone wants me too). The guide promised to let me bring my telescope one night and do an evening viewing from on top of the Maya High Temple. How cool would that be? We then traveled on to Orange Walk. I did a telescope viewing for our students, some of the guests, and the kids of the hotel owner. I'll probably go do some astronomy presentations at the local schools next time I go. I'm even thinking of offering a short course on astronomy at Belize College. Would be fun!
Next was a day at Lamanai, another Mayan ruin. The neatest thing there was hearing the eerie screaming and hooting of the howler monkeys. The other prof and I went off the trail to find them, but we never could find their hiding spot. We were a little afraid of hidden Fer-de-Lances (VERY poisionous snake) or Jaguar, so we didn't go to far. Even some of the trees there can poison you if you aren't careful about what you touch.
We then went up to Mexico to Chetumal, and tooled around looking at rock faces which showed evidence of the cataclysic asteroid impact 65 million years ago which caused the extinction of the dinosaurs and more than 80% of all species on the planet at that time. It was weird to look at the sedemintary rock and realize that you were seeing the remains of a 100 meter tsunami that carried boulders the size of tanks rushing over the landscape at hundreds of miles per hour. That would hurt. We then checked in on the Mennonite community, snorkeled around some stromatolite beds (the oldest known living organisms on the planet) in Laguna Bacular, and ate seafood in a restaurant next to the Cenote Azul (Cenote is basically a water-filled sinkhole).
For our last stop, we stayed in San Ignacio and toured the Mayan ruins of Caracol and Xunatunich. We also did a cave which contained a sacrificial chamber and lots of Mayan pottery. We even swam in a cold, mountain river and got leeches all over us. What fun! One night the had Karaoke at the hotel bar, and we got to sing such parody songs as "If you don't blow me by now" and "Letter to my penis"
All in all, the food was outstanding, the sights spectacular, and the people friendly (even the ones trying to sell you drugs). I bought several souveniers, although the bottle of coconut rum broked, so none for me. It was good to see the W when I got home. The kids were already asleep at the ILs house, so she went back to tend to them. I need to get up early (why am I here?), so I just staying home tonight and will catch up with everyone tomorrow after work. I really missed them all. The W looked so beautiful, I almost couldn't stop looking at her, and I probably kept her up a little too late talking about the trip.
Of course, there is always an undercurrent. We had 15 students along for the ride, and there was a lot of "intruige." One of the students was probably the most annoying person I have ever met, and people let him know it very directly. I felt sorry for the guy, but some things you just have to learn the hard way. Another guy was annoying, but in a touchy-feely way. He is engaged to be married this Fall, but couldn't keep his hands off the female students, none of which wanted it and made it rather clear they didn't want it. The really amazing thing was that the dad of the annoying kid went along, and didn't do a thing to try to stop it. Of course, he was out most of the time trying to hook up with local women and tourists. Now I'm not one to throw stones at people who have an A (for obvious reasons), but to do stuff like that on a school trip with your kid, and you are not even trying to be secretive about it, seems really messed up to me. Then one of the older students who is married and has a kid started really hitting hard on one of the female students. I felt really sorry for the guy, because he is obviously going through that young kid "low love back" syndrome. Fortunately nothing happened and I hope he will go back and really self-examine and fix what problems he has.
I did meet and get to know several students on the trip, ones I hope I will get a chance to have further interactions with. One of the kids is the most inobtrusive people you will ever meet, but can throw out one-line zingers like no tomorrow.
Of course, a lot more happened, but these are the highlights. I'm back now, safe and sound. More responses later.
Cheers all Chromo
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
ok. yes I see this. 
It was good to see the W when I got home. The kids were already asleep at the ILs house, so she went back to tend to them. I need to get up early (why am I here?), so I just staying home tonight and will catch up with everyone tomorrow after work. I really missed them all. The W looked so beautiful, I almost couldn't stop looking at her, and I probably kept her up a little too late talking about the trip.