So how or where was all the matter contained that sprewed forth from that exploding marble.? How is it possible something so small contain so much?
When you pop a Kernel of popcorn it explodes but it only grows to a proportionate size to what could be contained within the confines of the Kernel. So how did this one marble contain so much?
Similarities between Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism, thousands of years old) and the Big Bang are interesting:
Quote: Kabbalah teaches that, long before creation, the Light of the Creator filled the entire cosmos, filled it beyond our conception of time and space - for it is the essential nature of the Light: to expand in every direction, and to endlessly share of itself. In order to express its giving essence, the Light created a Vessel whose nature was to receive. The Vessel was created not only for the Light, but of the Light, in the same way that a pitcher made of ice is formed from the same water that pours into it. Yet there was also something entirely "new" about the Vessel, which was its nature to receive rather than to give and share. Kabbalah teaches that the fabrication of this new energy was the only true, ex nihilo creation that has ever taken place. All the physical universe, from the most distant stars to the smallest subatomic particles, are vestiges of that original creation.
Once the primordial Vessel came into being, there existed a pure circularity - a condition of complete mutual fulfillment between the giving, sharing principle of the Light and the receiving, accepting principle of the Vessel. The Light found completion by giving endlessly of its beneficence, and the Vessel experienced total satisfaction at receiving endlessly of the Light's infinite goodness.
But then something changed. The Vessel was no longer satisfied "just" to receive. Kabbalah refers to this new negative intention, this resistance, as bread of shame. Bread of shame meant that the Vessel would no longer simply receive the unearned benevolence of the Light. Rather, the Vessel had taken on the giving intention of the Light. The Vessel's desire to actively give rather than passively receive caused the Light to withdraw -to create a space in which the Vessel's new intention could express itself. The Light, whose only desire was to share, saw fit to withdraw its illumination so that the Vessel's desire could manifest.
It is at this point that the metaphysics of Kabbalah intersects with the conclusions of modern science. Today, physicists refer to the creation of the Universe as the Big Bang. But thousands of years ago, the ancient kabbalists were already describing that same creation as the shattering of the Vessel. Into the space created by the withdrawal of the Light, the Vessel fragmented into an infinite number of entities and energies, all of which are endowed at their deepest level with desire - and not just desire to receive, but desire to receive for the purpose of sharing. In other words, not just to meet God, but to become one with God. To be as God is.
Kabbalah has much more to say about the Light and the Vessel, and kabbalists over the centuries have delved deeply into the permutations of this very elegant formulation. Today, few people who encounter this beautiful metaphor fail to be moved by it. The interesting thing is, however, that it's not just a metaphor. According to Kabbalah, the Light and the Vessel are the literal form and substance of the world we live in - and not just the world, but even the physical bodies in which our souls now reside. The primordial sequence - desire to receive for the self alone, followed by bread of shame and resistance, followed by shattering and reconstituting as desire to receive for the purpose of sharing -- is played out not only over the whole course of our lives, but in every action and every encounter. Once we understand this, we become aware that we are not distant from God in the sense that the Greeks were distant from Zeus and Athena in their palace on Mount Olympus. Instead, we are enacting what the Creator enacted. We are experiencing what the Creator experiences. We are our finite selves, and we are also the infinite Light of the Creator.
There's more at this site: The Kabbalah Center. Remember, this is mysticism. .
Oh boy Corri, mixing God and Science to make your point only muddies the waters. But I get what you are saying (mostly). This inflation theory does not answer why it all happened... all it does is give a closer understanding of HOW it all happened Got it. My understanding is that the universe "banged" at a very fast rate (within that fraction of a second) and has since slowed down, like you were saying, to avoid self-destructing/imploding. And that it had to happen just like it did for any life to form. But again, going back to that darn marble. Are we saying that just like with God, we need to have a similar theory related to science and the creation of the universe? That this IT-ness simply was created out of nothingness? OR does this support the existence of GOD, that only something so beyond scientific explanation can be explained in this God-like manner? No way Jose. Where the heck are you Chrome when I need you. I need some SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION, not a philosophical/faith-based explanation. But I thank you Corru for sharing
considered Assembly to be a language (unless they were being cute and saying COBOL wasn't a programming language).
um. Assembly is the PURE programming language. Everything else is angel food cake.
LFL When you/me/us exist within the confines of our dimensions we cannot comprehend anything that exists outside of those dimensions. But Whatever IT is/was/caused to be the universe, does-- by the nature of its creative power, exist outside our dimension, and perception abilities.
For a more indepth explanation read Flatland, by Edwin Abbot Abbot.
If I remember correctly when going back towards a singularity, theorists are coming up with 10 dimensions--so far. We percieve 4 dimensions, but exist/live in 3.5 dimensions.
WTF was the marble "in" to begin with. IN? contained by? so limiting LFL. its outside our awareness and comrehension abilities.
um. Assembly is the PURE programming language. Everything else is angel food cake.
Easy to say BF until they change the shipping rules and you need to get all the books to every customer in the U.S by Wednesday. Sometimes the "Angel food cake" is the healthiest for your career. Call me a nerd who likes to get paid...
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
Quote: But again, going back to that darn marble. Are we saying that just like with God, we need to have a similar theory related to science and the creation of the universe? That this IT-ness simply was created out of nothingness? OR does this support the existence of GOD, that only something so beyond scientific explanation can be explained in this God-like manner?
I was giving you a philosophical example to illustrate a point. I wasn't necessarily mixing science and theology. The Big Bang Theory doesn't seek to prove or disprove God. It seeks to explain what has been observed.
It's hard to hold the concept of 'creation' in one's head, for we think in terms of before, during and after. When we say 'the start of the universe,' we automatically ask... well, what came before that? What was there?
There was no before... for 'before' didn't exist. For that matter, neither did 'during' or 'after.' Time was created with the Big Bang. It is part of the fabric of the universe, just like anything else.
I also think that you are getting hung up on what you perceive to be the definition of 'nothing.' I'm sure you think of nothing as NO THING, or empty 'space.' Whereas, the nothing to which you refer is NOT that. The nothing to which you refer is more along the lines of 'absence of separation.'
And this is probably making no sesne to you, whatsoever.
Quote: No way Jose. Where the heck are you Chrome when I need you. I need some SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION, not a philosophical/faith-based explanation. But I thank you Corri for sharing.
BF's explanation is referring, I believe, to M Theory, developed by Edward Witten. He wrote a paper on it that is amazingly digestable to the general public. If you'd like to read it, you can download it --> it's a .pdf file: M Theory.
Well. Let's hope Chrome can put some framework to it.
IN? contained by? so limiting LFL. its outside our awareness and comrehension abilities.
I tend to be fairly practical BF. All I'm saying is what happened to the laws of physics, gravity, etc. We explain much of the universe with these principles/theories and yet we cannot explain "the marble" because now it is beyond our comprehension as you state? We used to think that way about many things but eventually science advances to EXPLAIN. Right?. I'm just looking for a scientific explanation. It may not be "correct" but I'd like to hear what it is. Dr. Chrome????
I was giving you a philosophical example to illustrate a point. Thank you for that but again, it is not "scientific." You cannot explain what has been observed thru a philosophical viewpoint. You need some "data" which I understand has been achieved this week with the advancement of the Inflation theory related to the Big Bang, the "marble", etc Thank you for referring me to M theory. I will read more about it. also think that you are getting hung up on what you perceive to be the definition of 'nothing.' I'm sure you think of nothing as NO THING, or empty 'space.' Whereas, the nothing to which you refer is NOT that. The nothing to which you refer is more along the lines of 'absence of separation.'
But the No Thing, had to have turned into Some Thing (gases, etc) in order to create the marble. That's the data I'm talking about. But maybe I'm being too practical
