NG: At first, I read your reply and went, "Hey...I thought it was a pretty good response; it's direct, honest, and sets a boundary."
Then, I thought about it, and I think you're right. I've actually recognized this as part of my problem right now. I'm so into "boundaries" that I'm over-doing it.
What you're saying is be honest and be ... gulp ... vulnerable. That "try not to take it personally" is so hard to do in this type of situation. It takes a lot of mental energy to look at HG's wife's behavior and make it about things going on in her, or "projection" or whatever.
Geeze, I can feel myself getting all angry for HG all over again.
HG: You definitely need to talk to your W about this. If you can do it from a place of calmness within you, you are a better man than I am.
I agree with the other responses you are receiving, that was rude and insensitive of her....and cruel.
Why did you tolerate it? You need to call her on the carpet on this behavior.
IMPO she was completely dismissing your very presence in the room and it was disrespectful, you need to stand up for yourself.
You didn't tell us how you handled the situation....other than you got a "bit irritated"?!!! I'm thinking her rude behavior might have earned her a night on the couch....just bend over pick her up, carry her butt to the living room and dump her butt on the couch....then go to bed yourself.
Some of the posts on this board tell you different ways to stand up for your rights. I agree it needs to be talked about. But I can tell you that if you do it in anger and some of the ways suggested (even though you have every right too) may only distance you.
The attitude of hey this is mine and I've got my rights...well, that is true, but communicating it as such in a situation with sex...could drive her further from sex.
If you do she may shape up her actions, but it will be through fear...you'll not be winning her heart through communication (I"m not saying to roll over...).
Talk, communicate, let her know how you feel..how hurt you are...that it makes you angry...ask her if she loves you...they why would she treat you as such. YOu don't treat people you love with that way. Help her to see it...let you know the pain.
But doing it by beating a board on the top of her head by telling her that you are not going to take this treatmeat...well, HG...it doesn't work!!!
Quote: Suddenly, out of the blue, she sighs a bit, reaches over to the bed side table and gabs her book, and starts reading... READING.. WTH?! When I got a bit irritated at thie sudden shift in mood, she said that she knew I didn't like to be vocally rejected and didn't want to make me feel bad, so she thought she would try something a little more subtle..
If my wife EVER did anything like that to me, I promise it would be the absolute end of my sex life with her. I'd never approach her again, and I'd never waste another minute giving "foreplay" to anybody but myself.
Well...in the above case she'd get ONE last chance. She did explain herself as trying to be "subtle." I'd let her know in no uncertain terms that that was far from subtle and was a worse slap in the face than anything she could possibly have put into words. But honestly...if she ever did anything like that again...the sexual part of our marriage would be over. From that moment on I'd refuse to entertain any feelings for her beyond what I'd have for my mother or a sister. And that would be that.
I have been reading the varied responses here and I admit that I am having a hard time coming to terms with a lot of this.
Let me just state that as a man who has just gone through a 3000 mile, 15 month long distance relationship with my wife, whose Christmas visit (what I called my 'conjugal visit' before I left) was the ultimate rejection, straight from her showing up late at the airport to pick me up with only a kiss on the cheek. 3 weeks, and if we shared the same room, she sat as far from me as possible. I am no stranger to the 'not-so-subtle-subtleties' of what they think are 'gentle rejections'. I have felt the rage. I have felt the anger. I have felt such intense resentment for having travelled so far to have been met with such indifference.
I feel your pain.
That said, I'm troubled at the responses I've read here.
THere is nothing wrong with the feelings being expressed. They are honest and they are RIGHT. Boundaries were crossed, but if the marriage is important to you, it behooves to ask yourself, "will the next step bring me closer to my goal (improving communication, marriage, sex life, etc) or farther from it?"
Reacting like a cave man may feel right, but unless you are fortunate (? not sure that's the right word) to be married to a woman who prefers cave men to sensitive and caring men, you aren't going to get very far by dumping her on the couch for the night (no offense shortchanged!!!) unless your goal is to hit the big red button on your marriage. But I imagine that any negative emotional response you'd have, though justified, is just that, an emotional response, and with some time and reflection, a more appropriate response can be discovered.
TIME AND REFLECTION. Emphasis required. Walk away. I, too, probably would have flown off the hook at such a slap in the face. It would take every ounce of will and strength to resist the temptation to take it out on her...but let's get to her for a moment:
I know this doesn't sound like it's about her, and you indeed should not just 'roll over' and be her lap dog--such self-emasculation is highly destructive. Boundaries indeed are needed, but they need to be communicated effectively, not forcefully!
Back to her: Do you honestly think this is what she wants? If you can answer yes to that, I don't think I have any answer that could possibly help! But I'm going out on a limb to suggest that she did not marry you to sit in bed while you initiate with foreplay, and follow with the decision to be subtle to tell you no by grabbing a book.
There's no question there is a communication problem here. She's taking desparate measures, and her head is not on straight. She has turned to very hurtful tactics to tell you something. It's up to you to stop the cycle!! You may not feel like you should HAVE to be the one to shape up, but if you want it to, it's ALL on you.
Do a 180.
What kind of reaction do you think she expected? She's not dumb. She knows that if you did that to her, she would be insulted. To tell her that won't help though.
So turn it around if she does it again. Don't react. Give her a kiss on the cheek, tell her good night, and go to bed. Don't huff, don't puff. Don't even leave the bed. Make her feel that you got your fun out of it and you don't want her either.
Then, in the next day or two talk to her DIRECTLY about the situation. She was using indirect communication to bluntly snub you. To be indirect about this in return only feeds the problem. Pick an appropriate time when she is not busy, rushed or upset about something else to approach the subject, and steel yourself for any defensiveness she may emote. You simply MUST let any kind of negative reactions bounce off you when you approach this subject..let them deflect off you harmlessly. Swallow that pride and show her that you are more interested in airing out the problem and communicating with her than fighting. Show her that you are above the negativity.
Imagine you are hanging from a vine on a tall jungle tree over the Amazon river, full of jumping crocs. Do they jump? I doubt it..who cares. You need to hold yourself just high enough so that they can't bite your ankles...stay above the fray..take the high road. Show her that she cannot hurt you with words, despite their power. It's a form of detachment.
It will allow you to be direct and open. But in doing so, address only your feelings. Don't accuse. Just say, "Hey, the other night, do you remember when I was trying to initiate? I remember being very hurt when you went for the book. It made me very angry to feel rejected that way. I felt that I wasn't worth the respect to be told when you are not interested."
Now it is solely up to her how she deals with your feelings. She may not be ready to resolve whatever the issue is and may just get defensive. If that's the case, make a note of this new information, end the conversation peacefully, and walk away. Approach her again in a few days the same way, she will have likely thought about it--processed it--and because you weren't attacking her, you were only expressing your feelings, she may likely have understood that she was being hurtful and be ready to own up.
But if she doesn't? Don't worry about it. The point is you've established a boundary without saying the words, "Never again will I accept that..." Never set yourself up with an ultimatum you can't keep. If she abuses that boundary in the future, she can use it against you and all of a sudden your 'boundaries' have no meaning.
For example, I can't say to my wife, "if you continue to speak to this other man in your life (infidelity issue here), I'm going to be forced to leave you". I'm not ready to leave her, so giving her an ultimatum like that only renders my words meaningless and sets me up for further abuse. Instead, I have told her that "your relationship with this guy really hurts me because it makes me feel threatened in our relationship". Do you know what? She told me yesterday that she told this guy that she was going to focus on our marriage and there is little room for what he wants from her. SHE IS RESPECTING THE BOUNDARIES because she cares about the MARRIAGE, which carries with it the responsibility to each other's feelings within it.
Your wife may not feel up to a sex life with you right now... I don't know the issues...but I know that if she is still married with you, she wants it to work, as I assure you this isn't what she was bargaining for when she said "I do".
Don't turn the other cheek to have her do it again...but don't either give her the excuse to defend herself in anger by erupting in an emotional response to her actions. Establish your boundaries by communicating your feelings...show her how to communicate the tough issues and how to listen to her share in a safe, non-combative way so that when she doesn't feel like it in the future, she won't be afraid to look you in the eyes, smile, and say, "not tonight honey...I love you..."
All the best of luck. I recognize the strength that you need right now and I pray that you find it.
By the way, your signature includes the very lengthy URL of your home thread. If you used a link like this, it wouldn't make every page you post on so wide that some of us have to side-scroll to see it all.
