The problem in the desire follows arrousal is that one person in the marraige in effect must provide ALL the desire. Its not the sex that is important, it is the DESIRE that is important. How do you show desire, be openly horny, WITHOUT HELP from the man. What I don't understand is you LD women lose your desire for your man, and then expect that your man should be OK with this? What person actually WANTS to be married to someone that does not desire them?
Have you not read what Barney has written about NG....SHE NEVER openly showed desire to begin with. SHE IS AN DESIRE AFTER AROUSAL WOMAN....ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Would you take your freaking blinders off and the ear plugs out! Know what? Never mind...you won't listen anyway.
Well, first off, I'd say that I am not always deire after arousal...but most of the time.
But again, what causes arousal? Different things in different people. Some things can arouse me for sex that are not sexual! I'm sure other women are the same.
Gaining an emotional connection through spending time together talking, laughing, being vulnerable...holding hands, passionate kissing when not getting ready for sex, looking in each others eyes...have this ability to help EC.
If I know sex is coming and we've both just been living kind, couteous, separate lives...then it can very much beccome a "performance" on my part when it comes to having sex. I can make the noises and say the words, and do all the actions...well not all, but it ain't bad. And I have to do it because "gotta have sex". Ok. I make the detemination to connect and love and do absolutely everything that I know. Thinking about all that is great about B that I love....
But then explain this comment to me that you said,
"The problem in the desire follows arrousal is that one person in the marraige in effect must provide ALL the desire."
Who is providing the desire? Seems like I am taking desire into my own hands and endeavoring not only to be sexual but to mentally work out desire...reasons for it...logically...then try to emotionally express them.
This is not a planned effort against trying to do so on Barney's part. I know that.
I think that some people perhaps get their emotional connection through sex...???? And it is difficult to understand the other S who find sex then making love because they come into sex already having made an EC.
This is probably why it is good to be so different in M. BOTH parties have to work on understanding and making adjustments in their own lives to please the other one sexually and emotionally.
CeMar said, "How do you show desire, be openly horny, WITHOUT HELP from the man."
Don't you think CeMar that perhaps there are things the KILL desire!! That is also a possibility. Being resentful of doing things for the other person ..can kill desire. Angry words...can kill desire. Nagging...can kill desire. Silent treatment...can kill desire. Being sleep deprived from children, illness, or work...can kill desire. Changing hormones...can kill deire. And a host of other things.
Being angry at the other person because they don't have the same desire that you do can only kill the desire more.
Trying to understand, come up with a solution...whether a doctor, help around the house, or taking your S on a date...can only improve desire.
So I don't think it is necessary just things that need to be done..but also, things that people do that kill desire. And I think most don't have a clue that they are doing so.
I just re-read my response to CeMar where you are concerned. I do believe you are an desire after arousal person.....but that certainly doesn't mean that you can't have desire. I hope you didn't take it that way....just wanted to make sure I was clear to you.
I do believe that EVERYONE can experience desire if the conditions are right for them.....but I definitely agree with you on this. A persons' desire can so easily be killed by outside influences....and sometimes, it really doesn't take much to kill that little flame.
I just noticed this in your post ("3) I don't know that Barney will post here anymore. It is his choice. Not my "control". He is free to get honest advice here.")
I understand that you do see it this way. But (sorry don't remember which thread...I think it was his own) Barney did say that you don't like him posting on here, so he would discontinue doing it (paraphrasing here). So....YOU may say to us he's free to post here and get feedback, but just going off of what he said....HE doesn't feel free to keep posting here....because it makes you unhappy that he does.
Do you think there's possibly something to this? Is it possible this is one of those miscommunications again? Just pointing out something I noticed.
"Barney did say that you don't like him posting on here, so he would discontinue doing it (paraphrasing here). So....YOU may say to us he's free to post here and get feedback, but just going off of what he said....HE doesn't feel free to keep posting here....because it makes you unhappy that he does."
I certainly don't expect everyone to remember everything that has been said on this board! ha ha
Here is a quote earlier on this thread from Barney,
"Since two people have commented on my not posting anymore, let me explain. NG told me that she prefers that I not post on the BB. This is a result of things in the past.
It's probably a good idea for me, as talking too much about this stuff tends to make me angry rather than provide solutions.
The day after she asked me the question, "What do I have to do to make you feel wanted?" I told her that I had signed back on to DB and would be posting to get ideas how to communicate my answer to her. As I said before, you all have given me great input. But it seems that we've come full circle on the subject.
Now that I have confirmed what I already knew, it's up to me to do what I know. That's why I won't be posting anymore. Not because NG told me I can't."
Quote: Gaining an emotional connection through spending time together talking, laughing, being vulnerable...holding hands, passionate kissing when not getting ready for sex, looking in each others eyes...have this ability to help EC.
This is really important stuff. I want it, Barney wants it, most men do. But it is NOT the primary way of getting EC for most men, it is nice SECONDARY stuff. There is also one big problem that I see always creeping up, that the women wants all of these EC things with no expectations of sex. This means the women expects the man to UNCONDITIONALLY meet her needs. The truth is that he should. Marriage is about GIVING, and giving can have no preconditions. But then we turn around and look at the mans need for desire, and low and behold, there are CONDITIONS associated with it! The man must do X, Y, and Z, and then do A, B, and C on even days, and then fix ALL known issues, and then he will be lucky if he only gets rejected 75% of the time. Why should a women desire her husband? Because it is the right thing to do! Not because he got all his chickens in a row to meet your needs. Just like he is to meet YOUR needs without any expectations in return. It has to go BOTH ways.
Quote: Don't you think CeMar that perhaps there are things the KILL desire!! That is also a possibility. Being resentful of doing things for the other person ..can kill desire. Angry words...can kill desire. Nagging...can kill desire. Silent treatment...can kill desire. Being sleep deprived from children, illness, or work...can kill desire. Changing hormones...can kill deire. And a host of other things.
Yea, I know ALL about this. So us poor guys start trying to fix everything under the sun for you ladies, and guess what, there is ALWAYS one more obstical to your desire recovering. So, what 1 thing could Barney do today that would cause TRUE desire in you? What can Barney do that would cause you to become horny for him? You obviously have identified what turns you off, so focus on what turns you on instead.
You may not believe this...but I absolutely AGREE with everything that you said!
To your first comments: I don't want to paste as it will be TOO long. Barney and I have discussed this. I absolutely used to need xyz done prior to sex. I came to see that was wrong!
I understand, that at least , for Barney, I'm sure a percentage of others too, that Men need sex in order to be able to be emotionally open and connect!
I agree completely that if a woman waits until her H has jumped through all the sufficient hoops and then she'll be in the mood...that day RARELY comes!
I think it needs to go both ways. A LDW purposes to learn how to show desire because that is what her H needs. And a HDH purposes to learn how to do the EC'ing things that his W needs.
However, I have come to believe...and I believed contrary to this for about 20 years...that Sex comes first. I tried it the other way..and that doesn't work.
To the 2nd response: I think that a LDW has to make the decision that she wants S! And the reason to just choose sex...is because it is the loving thing to do and it can only bring 2 people closer.
I think, because I USED TO BE THIS WAY...that for whatever STUPID reason...an excuse as to why not to have sex is always sought.
Barney asked me today..ha ha should we tell them all that we are having sex and that it is great. I said that would be up to him. He said, "nah". and chuckled.
But, I think that for the sake of having hope it would be good to say that we have had sex and Barney SAID it was great!!!
Just doing posting here on Barney's thread. I'll guess I'll say similar on mine. I wish Barney would post....come on Barn...say a few words!
Barney and Nicegal have worked through issues and are gettin'together!
At Barney's suggestion and my agreement we have scheduled sex. With our lifestyle at this point, it is necessary. We are both happy with this arrangement.
ON Thursday morning we have a quickie...well, I was up from 2-5 a.m. (tonight too...this happens once every 2 or 3 months for about 2 or 3 nights..I don't fight it...I'll take my melatonin tomorrow before I got to bed though). Anyway, then one of our kids couldn't sleep and I was up with him for an hour...he kept begging to go in our bed...after an hour I gave in.
Barney was understanding of it. He saw my effort and knows our kids sometimes.
Well..what I did differently right away after we both laughed about what happened..I told him to drop the kids off at school and come back for a quickie...so we did!
Really puts a spring in your step for the day!
I know that this action shows him I love him, I want him, and I want a great R with him. I know that doing this sort of thing even when it is tough to fulfill will demonstrate my change of heart.
I know people mostly tell about the challenges here. It is just easy for me not to post good stuff that might encourage someone else. But, ha ha I'm up anyway at 4:30 a.m.! Although, I'm going back to sleep now for another 2 hours!
I know that this is only 2 weeks. But, I'll keep posting, maybe ole' Barn will add a few comments..to let you know how we are doing.
I said that would be up to him. 
He said, "nah". and chuckled.
and Barney SAID it was great!!! 
I'm up anyway at 4:30 a.m.! Although, I'm going back to sleep now for another 2 hours!