I found your points on "power" to be interesting. That is the crux of the problem. The fact that men have NO power to control the woman's O and it is maddening! For guys who need control in the R (I'm not saying that is you), but for them, I think they would not be willing to put up with a woman who did not either a) have authentic O's during sex and/or b) faked O's during sex.
- Yes. I think the main problem is the M misperception that he must create the O within the F. If he would only understand that this logic is equivalent to an F saying it is within her power and responsibility to cause an M to ejaculate after either 30 seconds or 30 minutes. Both logics are very flawed. Luckily I have realized this.
As to the power issue. I know you probably weren't meaning my frustration over not being able to control the O. My frustration strips away the O and is far more fundamental. The F is taking my power away by witholding important information that I feel is quite necessary to EC, trust, and intimacy. It's not for her to decide whether or not my feelings will be hurt or I will feel "less of a man" if she does not O. Especially if she allows the secret to continue indefinitely with dramatic displays of fake pleasure.
Well, of course it is one-dimensional. We were strictly talking about sex and O's. But I still stand by my statements. Given the choice between the two (with everything else fairly equal in the R), men will choose the woman supposedly into sex. Not rocket science here.
- No, definitely not rocket science. A very specific and primal pleasure choice, if you must strip away all of the other complexities of the R and attraction. More like a beer commercial arguing between "less filling" and "tastes great." (shhesh, not tooo dated, Stigmata.)
And I could probably say the same statement on such an basic level. All things being fairly equal and happy in the R, an F will choose an M who enjoys sex over one who does not.
But since M are supposed to be slanted towards the physical while Fs towards the emotional maybe I also could say, all things being fairly equal, the F will choose the M who caresses/cuddles/spoons and listens in bed after sex over an M who participates in the sex then gets up, walks downstairs, and watches Sports Center on ESPN for the next 2 hours on the couch by himself.
The question then has to be asked, how important are these very basic sexual considerations within an committed R? I think we'd agree most humans, M-F alike, prefer to be with someone who enjoys sex, over someone who finds no joy in it. Otherwise, I think there are some definite issues that may need to be dealt with internally in the people, Ms and Fs alike, who want to be with SOs who dislike sex.
...And I also think if both women acted as such from the beginning of the R, that the "not into sex" woman would NOT be making it to stage two, long-term R material.
- Ditto with the M example. The M not into sex from the beginning would not make it to stage 2. And the same in my second example. The wham bam M would not make it to stage 2 with the F if equally compared to the EC cuddler/listener guy., all other things being happy
Thus, MANY women will fake O's at the beginning of R in order to appeal to the man.
- Ahhh, a nugget of gold. I like it, LFL. Good point. Attraction. The initial lure to attract and keep a mate. Kinda like the running joke by comedians that lament that the number of BJs given by an F exponentially drops off the longer she's in the R.
Hmmm, and maybe like an F claiming she was low maintenance until she knew she had the M,, when he discovers she is anything but. I won't elaborate.
So, I guess we can thus say to fake at the early stages of the R, before real deep emotional connection, commitment, and trust is natural and common. But that chit had better stop real quicklike once that level of trust and commitment is established, huh?
And, no, I would never think you were pulling faking to mask the awkwardness of early R sex out of your arse, if you have done it. That's why I am here. That's why I listen very carefully to what the Fs have to say.
...So there is a HUGE push to continue the faking. It is often better for the woman to fake (her rationalization)than to risk having her H feel like she is not a good sexual partner. That can lead to a whole mess of problems much worse than her "lie", like affairs, divorce, etc. Women who fake aren't stupid. They're just practical. And given the number of HD women on this board who have faked at some point in their life, I think it only makes sense that the LD women of the H's on this board are almost certainly faking now and again. I would bet big money on it. But alas, one can never really know for sure. Are there any LD women on this board who want to share?
- Good points. So it all boils down to perception. Perception about what the SO requires (Ms wanting their Fs to have O, for example) and self-perception as to what will elicit an O within an particular F's own physiology/psychology.
Yes it is practical for an F to take the easier road and fake rather than digging deeper into discovering how to reach orgasm within the F body. Know thyself I guess. And this is where my understanding ends as I doo not know why or how one F will claim she has never felt an O throughout her life while another claims she can O just by thought alone.
Hint-hint, Ms. This should tell you you're barking up the wrong tree if you think it's within your power to bring about the O response. If she doesn't have a handle on the whys and hows, how the Hades are you gonna grasp it?
Enigmatic wiring. As individual as fingerprints. And all hand forged by an unknown Creator. Quite beyond our puny human M-F scope and comprehension.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
