Second - for newcomers - the recap (this was written a couple of years ago, as I will be 50 soon!):
My story: I'm 48, H 44, married 20 yrs. together 22, 3 kids S18 D14 S13. Backstory - night before our wedding old girlfriend seduces H. He spends next six months mooning over her and wondering if he made right choice. I know nothing until I find his journals six months into the marriage. Try to throw him out but he pleads. Eventually after I move to another city to continue my education he decides to recommit to marriage. We are happy, start family, life is good.
8 years ago I develop overactive thyroid, become spacy, loss of athletic capabilities, fatigue, gain 20 lbs.,etc. For various reasons pursue somewhat ineffective course of treatment until 3 years ago, disease flares up and am too fatigued and confused to continue working. Give up and take drugs for it (which have small risk of fatal disease). Numbers look normal but I never feel normal. After two years on drugs, make decision to kill off thyroid with radioactive iodine, become severely low thyroid after, takes 6 months to get thyroid replacement dose adjusted to proper level. Start feeling normal Nov. 2002.
H initiates MC 2 years ago. We go weekly but sessions seem focused on all his dissatisfactions with me and our mutual childhood abandonment issues (my father died, his mother left family in MLC). Things get worse.
Nov. 2002 - I'm finally starting to feel better. I find Michele's book. 2 days later H drops the bomb, ILYBINILWY. Spend November and December DBing madly. Because of improvement in thyroid condition am now able to work out and lose 20 lbs.H gradually warms up to me sexually, still no ILY's.
Dec. 29 - H wakes up early to "journal" then go surfing. Actually says ILY for first time as he leaves. Then I find his journal writings on the computer and discover: he started an affair one week after saying ILYBINILWY with a girl he had just met a couple weeks before. While we were on ski vacation before Christmas and having a great time together, he was still getting up and writing fantasies about happy second marriage with OW. H is planning separation. Kids find out, H comes home to tears and devastation all around. H tells me affair ended Thanksgiving weekend and OW moved out of town 2 weeks ago.
Dec. 30 - I announce to the board my intention to climb Mt. Whitney - to give me a goal to focus on outside the marriage and to celebrate my return to physical health.
January 2003 - H becomes very depressed after affair is discovered and seeks immediate psych visit - started on Prozac and individual counseling. Spends first three weeks of January very depressed - my concern for him overrides all else.
Last week in January, H still plans to move out Feb. 15, but starts to argue with me about child custody arrangements. I offer extremely generous visitation and buy myself a new bed because I don't want to sleep in old one with his memories when he's gone. Arrange for Feb 13th delivery.
Last weekend in January I go out of town on business trip with him for 2 days - seems a little better. H has insight with counselor about "longing", about how keeping one toe out the door in our marriage in case that "perfect" woman came along was a defense mechanism against the possibility of me abandoning him.
Next weekend - H actually feels happy! Is prozac kicking in or are insights from individual therapy kicking in? Unbeknownst to me, OW has been calling and emailing him throughout this past month. He is still drawn to the fantasy but starting to recognize her manipulative and self-centered side.
Second week of February - H informs apartment manager he is not moving in. Buys me red roses for Valentine's day and writes me a beautiful poem. Tells me ILY for Valentine's Day. We sleep together in my new bed. We go camping that weekend with kids and have a marvelous time.
Rest of Feb. - OW is still contacting H although he has asked her (not very forcefully) to stop. H finally tells me all this. Things between us are improving. He decides to write her a definitive "Don't contact me anymore" email but dawdles over it for over a week. I finally lose my patience just as he's coming to peace with the whole thing and letting go. We work it out. Go away on business trip together and ride hot air balloon over the desert.
March - I get my permits to climb Mt. Whitney. H is going to be my guide. We're both excited. I love him and he loves me. R is better than ever. He appreciates my strength and unconditional love when he was so confused. I know I wouldn't be here if not for Michele's books and the love and support of everyone here on the board.
June – we climb Mt. Whitney together! Our love is strong, although there are still issues to work through, but we are learning how to be more productive in how we deal with them.
Well -that's it. Unfortunately my original postings all got erased one day by accident, so I had to start using a different account, but I used to post as toughenoughforlove. I think most of February is in the Valentine’s Day – is it a massacre? thread.
Post Game Analysis What I did right: Act As IF - glass of wine, dancing in the kitchen to Tom Petty with beautiful meal prepared every night when H returned home - tried to stop reacting to his moods and just be in good mood myself.
Notes - kept index card with note in pocket - 180, act as if, do something different
Beginner's mind - let go of preconceived notions and tried to approach everything with a "why not?" attitude. This was also a 180 for me.
Validate, validate, validate - thank you Soup. Tried not to present my side but just validate what H was saying. Hardest thing I did but one of the most important.
Worked on myself - appearance, fitness, conscious living - at least other people were saying I was beautiful even when H wasn't yet! Didn't do it for H, but athletic companionship very important to him, my willingness to try new sports was something he really liked.
Loving detachment - got out of my defensive posture and let H's problems be HIS problems, not mine. Quit believing it was all about my flaws. Realized I could not control what he did, could only control my actions.
Act, don't react - tried to break cycle of reacting without conscious thinking first.
Emotional aikido - when I finally stopped fighting H on the separation is when he started to rethink it.
Sex - in this situation I refused to let our sex life die. May not work in every sitch but was important factor in ours.
Focused on baby steps.
WHAT I DID WRONG: Too much pursuing in the beginning. Fought the separation in the beginning - didn't respect H's need for space. Started to get into a little competitive space last week about the OW when I was getting impatient about the email; H really needs to see me as better than her and she is not worth my energy. Worried too much about things that never ended up happening - don't borrow trouble.
BOOKS THAT HELPED DR The Five Love Languages by Chapman A Year of Living Consciously by Gay Hendricks
ADVANTAGES I HAD Coincidental return to physical health at just the right time. H willing to see psych finally for his depression and start Prozac. H finally having insight into his own issues and able to see it wasn't about my imperfections. This board and its incredible support. Affair was already "theoretically" over when I discovered it. OW had moved out of town before I discovered A. H is basically a good guy whose needs weren't being met and had a crisis because of it. H's friends supported me and pushed H in right direction. I found Michele's book right before the bomb dropped. H lucked in to a pro-marriage individual counselor.
I mention these last things only so that those of you whose situations are not turning around as quickly will see that I had a lot of fortunate coincidences on my side. Patience and Discipline needs to be your motto.
Good luck to everyone!
Ellie
Postscript - Jan 2004 discover D13 has developed anorexia and bulimia. Applying all my DB skills to dealing with her illness.
PPS - September 2004 - D13 has started high school and is in recovery from her eating disorder, doing very well.
PPS - January 2005 - D continues well in recovery, despite a few bumps in the road. H and I continuing to do well.
PPPS - Nov 2005 - D stable, S18 off to college, H and I doing pretty well.
Okay, for the Monday morning weigh-in - I forgot to weigh myself before breakfast this morning, so I will do so tomorrow. Not expecting much though. I have been slightly off my diet (not badly, but an extra 200 or 300 calories a day is enough to do me in). I'm trying to get back to the diet log to keep myself honest.
I'm taking a slightly higher dose of my thyroid medicine before giving up and switching to Armour brand. We'll see how this works - I notice I have a little more energy, but exercise tolerance isn't so great.
H was gone with S14 over the weekend to snowboard with his brother and nephew in another state. D15 had lots of social engagements so I enjoyed a quiet weekend by myself without having to cook for or clean up after others - heaven! I even got to watch all the Oscar coverage yesterday.
H's brother and his wife are in the downward spiral dance, it's interesting to see H's take on it, since he sees some of his old self exaggerated in his brother. H gave his brother some good counsel, I think, but you know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Funny, in the context of our conversation about it last night, I used an episode from our summer vacation as an example of how unpredicatble the mood-disorder stuff can be (we suspect H's brother suffers from depression too like H). I mentioned - in a very nice, unthreatening way - the example I had posted here, where H got so upset about having to wait behind 2 cars at the gas station on a lovely day when our trip was going really well and we had plenty of time. He cussed and used the F word in front of the kids, I thought something had broken on the trcuk and we were going to be stuck in Mexico until I found out what it was really about.
Anyway - I mentioned this episode to H and he had absolutely no memory of the incident!!! None!!! Which just goes to show how depression can affect memory.
It was good, though, for H to go on this trip - he always really appreciates me more whenever he talks to friends with troubled marriages.
So - in keeping with the theme of this thread, "Thyroid madness" - I'm working on optimizing my thyroid treatment - I want to be 100% again. I'm also going to make sure H gets his rechecked - it's been a couple of years since his last test, and he has some risk factors for thyroid disease. And D15 needs rechecking, too, as it is possible that some of the things she is experiencing now could be due to thyroid disease. I know I sound paranoid, but it really runs in my family.
Ellie, I had mine removed 9 years ago for Thyroid Cancer, any recommendations on what I can do? I'm always looking for improvements and it sometimes doesn't seem like the meds really do much.
Email & MSN Messenger: Becca_1975@msn.com
Yesterday Is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
Today is a Gift.
That Is Why It Is Called "The Present"
I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking on this lately. It's pretty obvious, if you look at the thyroid bb's, that there are a lot of people who feel sub-optimal on their thyroid meds. Part of the problem, I think, is an over-reliance on the TSH test by doctors - so much so that if your TSH is "normal", then they say any hypothyroid symptoms you have must be due to something else - even when they are OBVIOUS symptoms of hypothyroidism.
I had high-dose RAI for Graves which pretty much wiped out my thyroid so you and I are in a similar boat. Some things for us to consider:
- standard medical dogma is that the T4 in your Synthroid will be converted at normal rates into T3 in your cells. This probably works well for most people, but there are clearly some people out there who do not convert T4 to T3 well. Next time you have bloodwork done, ask for a Free T4 AND a Free T3. If the T3 is in the lower end of the normal range, you might be someone who isn't converting well.
Normally, your thyroid releases 90% T4 and 10% T3, so it is normal to have some T3 being released directly into your bloodstream from the thyroid. In my case, and yours, we don't have that, so we may be more likely to need T3 (even though T3 should be being made from T4 at the cellular level).
I have been on a combination of Levothroid and Cytomel (T3) for about 8 months now - I've noticed some improvement in the brain fog but nothing else earth-shattering. I'm a little disappointed, actually, but perhaps the problem is my total dose not being high enough (although my TSH is 1), so I have bumped my T4 up a little.
- iron deficiency or selenium deficiency can affect utilization of the thyroid hormones. You should think about having a ferritin level checked (to make sure you are not someone with a tendency to store too much iron - hemochromatosis) then consider an iron supplement to bring it into the upper end of the normal range. Selenium supplements may help with T4-T3 conversion and decrease thyroid antibodies - but again, too much can be toxic, no more than one tablet a day or just eat a few Brazil nuts every week.
- some people say they do better on Armour thyroid (which is made from pig glands and contains 20% T3, as well as possibly other components from pig gland that we don't know what they do). I always had a few older patients who just couldn't tolerate switching from Armour to T4. Some people don't do well with it, though, and it can be hard to find a doctor who will prescribe it. I'm thinking about trying it, though, if this last dose increase doesn't help. Armour should be taken twice a day because T3 has a short half-life, and some people recommend starting lower and working up to an equivalent dose.
- people on the boards argue for shooting for a replacement level that gets your Free T4 and Free T3 into the upper third of the normal range. I don't know how well this correlates with clinical outcomes but it seems a reasonable goal to try for. I think doctors are so afraid of overdosing patients on thyroid hormone that they leave far too many underdosed.
Interesting. I am anemic so i should be taking an iron supplement anyway, but generally fail to. I've read up on Selenium, but more in the area of equine and livestock....even there they do not recommend Selenium be given except under Vet supervision.
I've thought for a while now that not nearly enough attention gets given on this issue, I do know that i could go into the Dr office with just about any complaint and they will blame it on my thyroid. I could go in with a sprained ankle and they'd blame it on my thyroid, I think.
Email & MSN Messenger: Becca_1975@msn.com
Yesterday Is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
Today is a Gift.
That Is Why It Is Called "The Present"
I know I definitely feel better when I take my multivitamin regularly. Probably the iron and other things in it helping my thyroid hormone work better.
Ellie, I recently read your post that mentioned www.drlowe.com - I ended up calling them - they faxed me the lab tests - my OB/GYN ordered them (fibromyalgia, hypothyroid) and I will see if the ENT doc will agree. I plan on moving foward w/Dr & Dr Lowe. Thanks for the info. Faith, Hope, Love, LSL
Okay - Monday morning weigh-in - one day late: 165 lbs!!!!! Wahoo!!! Finally, a 5 lb weight loss total since - November!!!
But the lesson here is - it really is all about my thyroid. I was dieting, working out like mad....and nothing. Now I've pushed my thyroid meds up, I'm still watching what I eat but honestly have been slacking a bit on the exercise the past couple of weeks - and voila, the weight starts to move. Just shows me two things: - if you're doing everything right and the weight's not budging - it's the thyroid, stupid! - and yes, I'm one of those people who has to push their TSH down out of range in order to feel good.
Ellie, your story is such an inspiration...I'm so glad that you're life is so much better and I wish you all the best.
Your advice in the first post of this new thread is great...I myself am s-l-o-w-l-y coming to these same conclusions...not matter how much you read and follow advice, you need to come to the conclusion/committment on your own (or maybe I'm just stubborn).
Wonderful reading your story today! I hope to come through as well as you have!
