I’m with Tim – sounds like a lot of differentiation on your part. When you left the board, you had done a lot of confrontation and communication with your H, drawing and enforcing of boundaries, etc. etc…what you have done now is complete the growth cycle by learning how to self-confront and self-soothe.
Guys, keep in mind that Jen and her H have been through some red-hot crucibles. There is a LOT of confronting, pain and growth that have taken place here. I don’t think Jen is advocating that HDs stop initiating and sublimate their sex drive, nilly willy (whether they are men or women.) In her situation, given all that has already taken place, these are effective self-soothing techniques for HER. This works for her because her H has already accepted the importance of sex in their marriage, is initiating regularly and this is her way of meeting him half-way.
Jenny, fwiw, I agree with everything you are saying. I do most of the things you are recommending. It keeps the male-female dynamic in balance, and in the long term, that is the way to success. I do, however, initiate. I might initiate in an outright way, bringing all the heat, probably once every 10 times. I might initiate in a subtle way, putting out signals, with him subsequently bringing the heat, maybe once every 3 or 4 times. The rest of the time, its all him. There are even times when I just show up (Chrome, I hope you are reading!) It is not a calculated thing, but that is how it seems to end up, and it is probably a true reflection of our sex drives.
I also agree with you that the whole HD/LD label thing can cause more distress than needed. My H is more HD than me in a purely physical sense. However, I view sex as an integral part of our relationship, him less so, and in that sense, I am more HD.
Quote: One of the funny things that has resulted from my "exercise" is that even though I really never initiate sex anymore, since my H is still kind of stuck in the rut of thinking of me as HD, I think it's possible that he would say that I do initiate sex quite a bit of the time. For instance, if I walk in the room and take my shirt off, in his mind I am initiating sex when really I'm just changing my shirt.
This has happened to me as well. I was icing my neck one day because it was sore, lying on the couch, sans shirt. He initiated rather forcefully, mumbling something about seduction and black bras, lol!
This is an excellent point. Many people would be thrilled to live with my H. An LD woman would be thrilled. She would have hit pay dirt. He is respectful, he is willing to resolve conflicts (as long as they aren't about sex), he's great with the kids, great with money, a good businessman, relgious, does work around the house without direction or complaint. Yep - he's a great guy the VAST majority of the time. More than anyone could ask for really. I'm not sure what it would take for me to happy with the sexual frequency as it is. We just had a giant blow up argument (not about sex) and these are rare in our HH so I don't really care about sex right now. Of course, give me a couple of days and I will.
" might initiate in an outright way, bringing all the heat, probably once every 10 times. I might initiate in a subtle way, putting out signals, with him subsequently bringing the heat, maybe once every 3 or 4 times. The rest of the time, its all him. There are even times when I just show up (Chrome, I hope you are reading!)"
I would have no problem with this pattern from my W. I would have no problem with even less. And I know that at first it is going to have to be me most of the time, with her just showing up on numerous occasions. I don't have a problem with my W just showing up sometimes, I realize that moods vary. What I do have a problem with is the notion of her just showing up permanently for the rest of our marriage. Granted, that is not what she said, but it is what I heard, thus my brief depressed state. I can't imagine anyone who likes sex being happy with their SO just showing up every time. Even if there are physical difficulties, there can still be intent and desire for closeness.
I do hear what you are saying though. Thanks.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: First, tell yourself that the message that your H is giving you with his LD behavior is that he would like to be in charge of driving the sexual car.
I believe that my H does not want me pressuring him for sex and he wants to set the pace. I don't, however, believe that he wants to solely drive the car. He wants me to initiate..or at the least, to give him Green Light Signs like taking my shirt off...when HE is horny. If he is in the mood, but I do nothing, more often than not nothing happens.
Are you saying this is the way he wants it?
Cobra, I am like you in that I don't have addictive tendencies towards anything, such as food, drink, etc. I am quite boring in that regard, so moderate am I.
Would hot sex cheer me up these days? Somewhat. We ML every day for over a week, the week before this one, and I *still* felt detached from H. That's when I realized that perhaps something was going on with me. Of course, my dad is dying so that doesn't help matters.
Back to you, JJ. So I think I see where you're going with this. But lemme ask you this: When you find yourself physically horny and H isn't even IN the car, let alone driving it, what do you do? Distract yourself? Interesting...
Quote: That's when I realized that perhaps something was going on with me. Of course, my dad is dying so that doesn't help matters.
HP...
Just had a thought, related to your last post. I'm wondering if at least part of the problem might be that for a long time, H needed YOU, but now things have switched around to YOU needing HIM, and... he's not there. With your father dying and all, no doubt you're needing some pretty heavy emotional support, and it doesn't sound like you're getting it. Could that be at least part of the reason for your E-detached feeling?
I've found that this is true for me also. If you spend a lot of time/energy thinking about day-trading stocks or breeding dahlias, it can be hard to suddenly switch your mental gears and start thinking about sex when your spouse initiates. Also, I've gotten lazy since I no longer consider sex to be my responsibility. For instance, I no longer bother to buy the thingamabobs that make sex during your period less messy so my H ends up getting the obviously pure charity blow job on occasion.
OTOH, a lot of the time the sex is better because I get much more of the super-horny male aggressive drive coming at me which is what I like best. If what I really wanted was a guy who just responded positively to me initiating, I probably wouldn't have benefited from giving up initiating. The reason "not initiating " or "not initiating as often" might be a good choice for a HDW is that most women don't start initiating sex frequently unless they think that their H isn't initiating enough.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Here's another way to look at it. You will be far happier in your marriage if instead of working really hard to make your spouse happy and hoping that they will reciprocate by working really hard to make you happy too, you simply do a little work to achieve the POV of someone who would be happy to be married to your spouse as he/she is.
If your gut-response is there is nobody who could be happy married to my spouse as he/she is, then probably you are in a situation in which your spouse is not treating you with respect. If this is the case then the question to ask yourself is what kind of person would be happy with my spouse because they are the kind of person my spouse would treat with respect?
Good post, really made me think. Unfortunately, I think there are plenty of men out there who would be happy with my wife as she is. For example: Honeypot's husband. Probably your husband. Any other LD husband we read about on this board. In other words, any guy who wanted to be married to a pretty, smart, fun woman who would never have sex with him.
Yes, there are guys like that out there, but I'm not one of them. And if I "work to achieve the point of view" of a LD man, I'm not being very true to myself, right? I'm happy to compromise, but how about if she "works to achieve the POV" of HoneyPot or MegaMojo?
Quote: Are you saying this is the way he wants it?
I believe that your H does think that what he wants/needs in order to be sexual is for you to initiate or give "green lights", just as I believe that my H really did believe that what he wanted/needed in order to be more sexual was for me to lose 20 lbs. IMO the problem really is that a lot of LDH's are suffering from reverse-beer-goggles syndrome. Reverse-beer-goggles syndrome is directly related to beer-goggles syndrome in much the same way that diabetes is related to hypoglycemia. In both cases the male brain is interacting with testosterone in a way that causes confusing and irrational thought patterns concerning the desirability of female sexual partners. Initiating sex in a hotter manner or making yourself more sexually attractive in order to cure reverse-beer-goggles syndrome is the equivalent of giving a hypoglycemic ever more sugary treats. It might work in the short run but in the long run it is counter-productive.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Any other LD husband we read about on this board. In other words, any guy who wanted to be married to a pretty, smart, fun woman who would never have sex with him.
The fact of the matter is there is no way in hell my H would want to be married to a woman who would never have sex with him. But forget about the specific instance of my H and consider some sort of idealized version LD man who would be happy married to your wife. Maybe he would be happy married to your pretty, smart, fun wife because his last wife was ugly, dumb and boring or maybe he would be happy married to your wife because she wouldn't hassle him about his LD behavior. One thing to consider is that your wife might not actually be happy being married to the guy who would be happy to be married to her. People are perverse. Perhaps, especially in their sexuality.
For example, I have found that if I try to expand my POV and simultaneously amuse myself by having a thought along the lines of "I am so lucky to be married to a man who does not interrupt my viewing of my favorite TV show by trying to poke me with his thing.", the odds that my H will try to interrupt my viewing of my favorite TV show in such a manner increase.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
IMO the problem really is that a lot of LDH's are suffering from reverse-beer-goggles syndrome. Reverse-beer-goggles syndrome is directly related to beer-goggles syndrome in much the same way that diabetes is related to hypoglycemia. In both cases the male brain is interacting with testosterone in a way that causes confusing and irrational thought patterns concerning the desirability of female sexual partners. Initiating sex in a hotter manner or making yourself more sexually attractive in order to cure reverse-beer-goggles syndrome is the equivalent of giving a hypoglycemic ever more sugary treats. It might work in the short run but in the long run it is counter-productive.