Before throwing in the towel, not that Schnarch talks specifically about where you are right now – Chapter 13 “Couples in the Crucible: Reaching Critical Mass.” According to him, couples experience the same detachment you describe. This is required as a critical mass state before true progress can be made in confronting the real issues. Up to this point confrontation of issues was avoided. You are at the fork in the road, this is the bottom, the worst that things can get. One direction takes you to divorce. The other takes you both to growth.
You have no more investment, and if your H is in the same position, then neither does he. There is no sense in playing any more games, making denials or power plays. You can be truthful and forthright with your husband now, tell him everything about yourself that he needs to hear and that you need to get off your chest. Doing so will not phase you. Hopefully he will feel the same way. If the two of you can do this, you will be on the upswing. Stick it out. Things can’t get much worse.
What Cobra said is certainly true. Unfortunately when exH and I reached critical mass he lied, hid, shamed me, threatened me and wrote himself perscriptions for painkillers and lied some more. It was unfortunate. He is now sober but is still emotionally that guy. I do not advocate divorce in most circumstances but I well understand the pain of just not caring anymore. I could hardly work up the energy to leave - leaving required the ability to leap into an abyss of unknowns and to rely on my ability to be the exact opposite of who H thought I was, who I had started to believe I was.
Chrissy, can you safely tell your H the truth of where you are in this thing?
"I always think that other people who don't worry about these things have it all figured out as to where there life is going and what they want out of it. Leaving me feel more ucky about my own choas of mind."
Ignorance is bliss. Life is chaotic, is unfair, and can be very harsh. Feeling yucky about life is understandable, just don't let it overwhelm you to the point of feeling like NOTHING is worthwhile.
"It would have meant the world to me if he would have said I miss your smile your laugh your eyes the sound of your voice anything like that but nope just hurry up and get home so I can get laid. It all left me feeling very sad. And alone and like that is all I am worth to him. Don't really know how to explain it."
I think you explained it very well. And I think that is a common problem. I'll bet my W hears me say "I just want to get laid" when I complement her sometimes, even if I don't mean it that way. Is it possible that your H just isn't very good at adroitly expressing his love and caring for you?
"I feel quilty about these thoughts. People are not suppose to wish someone else dead. At least not just because it would make there life easier or more peaceful. It makes me feel like a aweful person when these thoughts cross through my mind."
Feeling guilty is fine, but just remember, there is no right or wrong way to feel, there just IS the way you feel. Your feelings about your H are just that, neither necessarily wrong or right. It is how you choose to respond to those feelings that can be wrong or right.
You should not be ashamed of having a desire for an easier or happier life. But it is your conscience that tells you there are certain things you can't do to acheive that. Your emotional mind is telling you things would be better if H wasn't there. That may be true or not, you may never know.
"Part of it is because to appease my H I have cut off friends and so forth in my life. I have no one to speak to other then my family who live far away. So I have no one to do things with. In my marriage no I don't feel important or understood at all. Nor do I feel excepted which accounts for alot of the loneliness I feel even when with I am in my H's presences."
I think the no friends dynamic is one you are going to have to break or else your M is doomed. That's JMHO, but it is crystal clear to me that you are drowing in this M. I don't think the M has to fail, but I can't see how it can continue as it is. Everyone has the basic need to feel accepted, especially from their SO. How can you possibly attain intimacy and EC without it?
"Yes sex is just sex to me there is no EC. Even when there is a O it does not leave me feeling fufilled or loved or loving it is a hollow act of nothing but physical energy. And it saddens me greatly."
Ugh, that saddens me too. Especially for someone who is so obviously in tune with their sexuality. I don't know what to say here Chrissy, I'm too much of a novice in this area.
"Which we all know I am not LD nor am I a inhibited person so I don't really understand why with the H there are no warm and fuzzys and lube is usually required (not due to size problems either)."
It is clear to me. No EC = difficulty with arousal. Harley explains it better than I could in HN/HN. Without an atmosphere of affection, arousal is difficult if not impossible for most women.
"Once it is spent things are still as they were prior to the surge of emotions that brought it on. Nothing ever seems to change around here no matter what so?"
But anger is one of those emotions that can fuel change as it can be the glue that keeps your boundaries in place. I'm not talking about out of control fury. I'm talking about letting anger give you resolve.
"My H is seldom in my day dreams it is usually just me and my kids. Living somewhere else and differently. Not all of the different ways revolve around my H and his absense. But I live with slobs and hate it so in my day dreams my kids are not slobs my house is clean lol."
LOL, daydreams about a clean house, LOL. That's rich. Seriously though, the fact that you don't daydream about better days with the H is a bit troubling.
"But now it seems like things I never felt pressured by like what to make for supper now is a huge thing that sends me of to escape land."
A classic sign of depression. Things you enjoy are no longer enjoyable. Things that were once easy are impossibly hard. I know you have seen a doctor in the past and have taken medication. Are you seeing a C about the depression regularly?
"So I think that will be good for my state of mind."
Absolutely right. The one thing that severely depressed people forget to do is keep living. So long as you keep doing things, you can usually stave off the worst stuff. Keep it up Chrissy. You CAN have a good life.
"I had not been allowed in a place like that in over 13 years without the H. And because of his jealous behavor opted to stop going at all. I was there for 5 hours never moved from the table except to pee. I felt terrified that my H was going to either crawl out of the walls or lambast me about being there and accuse me of all kinds of things."
Why does your H mistrust you so? Is he projecting from previous R's? I can definitely appreciate the "not have fun" thing. It really sucks. It almost sounds like your H is acting like an abusive father figure to you. I'm not a psychologist though, so don't take my word on it. The amount of control he wields on you is unhealthy.
Be well Chrissy.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I don't know if I am done. I am done with my marriage as it is. Even my life as it is. But totally done with it all I am not really sure.
As to telling my H. We did have a short talk the other day to once again try to explain to him that I have no real desire for him sexually because are relationship lacks the fundamentals of friendship, comfort, saftey and the ability to communicate. I made a great effort in reasurring him that it was not that I did not lack desire because of performance or such but it was all based on the fact I cannot derive a EC in the bedroom when there is none outside of the bedroom. H of course disagreed with this. He feels our relationship outside the bedroom is fine. The only thing he said was that he knows that sometimes we need to do things together just us. Which I do agree with problem is I do not feel comfortable when we do things together because it is either dead silence between us with lack of things to say or it is always a strain knowing at some point in time I am going to say or do something that pisses him off and the arguing will commence. Either way it becomes a sad situation instead of a good one.
H has been acting all loving and pretty much keeping his hands of my package the last few days. This saddens me to because I know he does not see the problems he is just doing what he thinks it will take to appease me to get me to want to have sex. I also know that H does not realize a few days of different behavior will not change this dynamic it will take months if not longer to undo all the damage that has been done. My H may be determined to try but he is not good for endurance on changing his behavior. So again it saddens me. Thats where I really am every time I think about my marriage it makes me feel sad. And I don't know how to break the circular emotional chain that has been established over the years.
So the answer to your question is I don't know. I am done with things as they are. I just don't know which way to go from here.
You really don't know which way to go from here? After reading your post to Karen...I don't mean to sound cruel, but I think you do know. You are afraid to act on it.
Your post is very telling. You have nothing more to say to your H which is why being alone is so miserable. The convo about "H we have no EC outside the bedroom so inside doesn't happen" is you explaining it again to yourself. Experience has taught you that he isn't listening. I am not saying to leave but I am saying that you are utterly alone in your understanding of how much trouble the M is in.
I can't remember if you have a C. Do yourself a favor get one of those and some friends too. If you stay in this M you will need both. If you leave you will need both too.
I am going to have to second Gel on this one. You know what the answer is.
Hugs, Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
Gonna have to get that book I guess. Talked to my H a little more today on the ride to another town. I explained that I am not sure how long if ever what has been will stop effecting what is and will be. If I will ever feel safe with him or ever be able to feel differently and even if I can it will take a long time. Since it took me a long time to get where I am now.I also told him that I am not sure if I want to continue to try for something that is such a long shot that may just end up being a waste of another year or two of our lives. H told me I would have to decide. I told him I know that but there are so many what ifs attached that it is not easy to do. H and I also spoke of the fact I really need to get a job. Not just a 6 week here and there seasonal job. Like I am currently about to go back and work. But something steady and realiable maybe part time maybe full time if what I gain is worth what I loose (benifits and money to pay someone to pick my kids up from sporting events). H said he would be fine with whatever I decided to do. I told him I did not trust those words since he was so adament just a month ago and full of criteria that he may hold back saying anything to appease me but sooner or later it would become a problem since he would just be acting as if. He did not disagree nor agree.
You can be truthful and forthright with your husband now, tell him everything about yourself that he needs to hear and that you need to get off your chest
I think this is what I am attempting to do. I am throwing caution to the wind and just trying to make him understand.
Though I am not happy I am also not trying to hurt him. But me healing has got to come first and it won't ever happen if I don't start addressing these issues straight on.
