Old age is so sad.

[Baltoman]

Whew!

Thanks for the clarification, Balto. I'm guessing you 2 were living apart at the time. I was reading that comment with the assumption that the 2 of you were still living together in the same house and working on things...which makes it read way different than the way you intended.

No, actually we were together. It was Friday. The working assumption between us is I would move out Monday. We never discussed it, but we both knew it. Retrouvaille was supposed to be something we checked off as having tried before splitting.

[Chrissy]

LFL,

I think I am a little confused about this emeshed thing.
Does everything I feel and want revolve around my H in my mind. No but most actions I take I do first consider what is going to be the reaction and what [censored] I or my kids will have to endure via his moods and such. A lot of times what we would have to endure is not worth what I would gain. So I do nothing. Is that ememshment? Not sure when the only reason I consider his response is for mine and the kids personal comfort not for reasons of it really matters to me what he would think. Again as I stated to Gel I think I am past the point of no return I think it is all so tainted that I am starting to believe there is to much water under the bridge to ever make it right.

Stop this enabling dynamic the two of you clearly have. You need to find Chrissy, the individual, yet whole person.

Ah see this is where I am having issues. Chrissy the individual is not allowed in the marriage. Her being there iw what started this whole insecurity war with my H.
H feels when two people are married that is it they are to be all that the other needs to be each others worlds. Letting no one else in. No friends no family ect they are intruders and unwelcomed. But Chrissy as a whole person needs friends and family and others outside of our relationship as much as she needs her H, But my H disagrees with this and it causes huge fights. Circular motion ah yet again


You can do it on your own Chrissy

Not a doubt in my mind about that. I just have no reason to right now. It is not worth the fights with the H not for me and not for my kids to see. Easier to live in this hollow shell of a person and in this hollow relationship. Until now. Now I don't want to anymore but am struggling to find a way to start moving without it causing to much grief for all.

I could have curled up in a little ball in bed when he left but I didn't

I have been curled up in a ball in bed for the last two years. I really believe and what I was trying to say with the push statement is that I feel if he truely left for a while I would climb out of this fetal position and start living again. I do not feel able to do so in his presence.
I do not feel safe to be a person in his presence. And I have adapted the opinion if I cannot be myself I will be no one I am no one. Not a healthy thought process I know.
I am coming to realize of late that I feel like a failure because I cannot give him what he wants. All this emotional stuff is not my cup of tea and the more I feel like a failure the more I detach from everything making me feel more inept and more like a failure.
Again it is circular actions and responses.


Right now you are becoming your own worst enemy,

I became my own worse enemy years ago when I started waiving that white flag just to not have to deal with anymore fighting. I laid down my pride and self respect and let myself be defeated.

[Chrissy]

Stig.

Ah silence is golden.

I want to be free to be allowed to be who I want to be or am. I want exceptance. I want peace.
I want to give up my life of dreed and feelings of doom.
I want to be able to embrace life and thank God for every day I wake up.

I just don't know how to get there.
Because all those things I push out of my mind are my reality and don't simply evaporate into silence.
My kids are mine to think of first for the next 7 years.
Others people feelings are mine to consider in making of my decisions. There are so many external factors that simply cannot be pushed aside.

[Chrissy]

Balto

Thank you for the info.

I guess I need to check if there is one near here,

Born and raised Catholic even though I am not at present a practicing one lol. I have actually been giving thought to starting to attend the church even if I do not agree with the politics of it. So I doubt the religious aspect will effect me though it may the H. He was raised baptist I believe though he pratices no religion to my awareness I am not even sure of what his stance on God is or how deep if at all his belief is in God.
We never speak of such things.

[Stigmata]

There are so many external factors that simply cannot be pushed aside.

- Yes they can Chrissy. Temporarily. Mentally. These external factors have no bearing on the path of your soul. That is between the conscious you and your soul to discuss. No one else is allowed/able to be a part of this.

External is what it is. External. Mentally lock yourself up in an empty quiet room and listen to what the internal "factor" is saying she wants.

Then it's okay to open the door and let all that noise of the kids, H, OP, "external factors" come rushing in. But you need that answer/discussion first. Will help steer your decisions as they relate to all of this external noise besides.

Here's an exercise you might want to try. Picture your own funeral, Chrissy. You've had a full life. So who is going to give your eulogy? What are they gonna say about Chrissy?

You are attending this. Who do you see in the audience? Since you can read minds what do you hear these people saying about you? Your life?

I know. I know. When I did this I felt like total sht. Makes you realize you've got from now till hopefully a long way off to fill that room with a lot of folks who are not mourning your death but celebrating such a full life.

But don't panic and think you have to rush. One step at a time. One small positive motion per day if you can--even if that just means thinking only positive thoughts all day.

If you do that, positive events and people in your life will in turn seek you out. It's a mysterious law of attraction.

-Stigmata-

[MJontheMend]

I think that you are absolutely right to believe that your H's anger is getting in the way of resolving your difficulties. However, you need to consider that given your current depressive state of mind if your H is able to drop his anger, he will probably just end up feeling sorry that you are so unhappy but unable to do anything about it.

[LustForLife]

I think I am a little confused about this emeshed thing.
Does everything I feel and want revolve around my H in my mind. No but most actions I take I do first consider what is going to be the reaction and what [censored] I or my kids will have to endure via his moods and such. A lot of times what we would have to endure is not worth what I would gain. So I do nothing. Is that ememshment?
Ok, forget that psycho babble word for a minute. I guess the more critical question is do you truly feel in fear of your safety due to H's violence/anger. OR, do you use that as an excuse to justify why you are not doing what Chrissy needs to feel better, about herself and the M.
If the answer is he will physically hurt you if you assert your independence within the M, than you need to get out of that M. You need to draw the line/the boundary somewhere. But again, that is up to you, not him.
The two of you, however, are feeding off each other to make up one highly dysfunctional M. It it is guaranteed to continue unless one of you makes a move in the right direction. I doubt he is going to do it. So it is up to you, unless you are willing to live like this the rest of your life.
Easier to live in this hollow shell of a person and in this hollow relationship. Until now. Now I don't want to anymore but am struggling to find a way to start moving without it causing to much grief for all.

Justifications and rationalizations. And all BS. You know it is not "easier". You are in major depression. And about finding a way to move without too much disruption, not possible. Otherwise, you won't see much change. You need to find a way to make it clear to your H that you WILL be YOU in the M or it is not going to work. How you do that is up to you. Seperation? An option. But he needs to understand that it cannot be by his rules/terms. Lots of people separate and when they get back together not a thing has changed. What's the point?
Again, the two of you need to get to some level of "healthyness" as individuals before your M has a chance of working.

[Chrissy]

Just pulled these comments off of Bubes post.

I know she's not ugly all of the time but she obviously does it enough that they are afraid of her on bad days and only dread her on good days

So, we learned to spend a lot of time "reading the signs" - doing our damndest to not do or say anything that would instigate an occurance.

The unpredictability (and these things only occurred a few times a year) - meant that we were on guard all the time. Ever watching, ever stressing.


We are all conflict avoiders - if you're already in constant conflict, who wants to actively volunteer for more?

I have discovered that we all deal with a strong sense of dis-empowerment with little ability to impact our own life in any meaningful way.

All of these parts of statements could easily discribe the dynamics in my relationship. Of how I feel and why I move so cautiously around my H.

Now I also realize this is not only about my H. But over the years as my H has became more like my step father my reactions to my step fathers behavior has become my reactions to my H's simular behavior (darn FOO).
I have no great love for my step father/adoptive father don't know if I have any love for him. He made growing up hell. And as we know I have him pegged as one of my demons that dwell in my basement. At 41 years old when I walk into his house I still fell like I am 12 and powerless to his behavior/moods and avoid him like the plauge. If my mom was to die before him I doubt I would have any contact with him ever again.

So simular behaviors in my H elicite simular responses in me. Hence my feeling of entrapment by my H's behavior.
Do I fear my H physically every day no. Only if I step to far over the boundries. Do I fear my H emotionally every day. I would say I am always on my gaurd trying to avoid days where I need to. This always looking over my shoulder mentallity keeps me from feeling safe from him. And even with the recent changes in my H's behavior I cannot stop myself from feeling the need to always be prepared and avoid anything that sets him off. And that is something I do not know if will ever change within our relationship. Regaurdless of how much effort my husband puts into changing these behaviors. That is why I am now questioning if there is to much water under the bridge if there is to much damage already been done to turn things around.

[Greeneyedlass]

Chrissy,

You pretty much just asked yourself what I was going to, but I was going to put it this way.... What would your H need to do in order for you to feel safe with him? Is it realisitic to believe he would ever be able to do the things to make you feel safe, i.e. do you think he would do them?

I'm not asking if you think it would be fair to ask him to do what you need to feel safe, I'm asking do you really think he could/would be able to do those things....on a continuing basis (because that's what it would take for you to find some sense of security) every day?

As I see it....if you can't answer yes honestly to that question....you know what your future will remain if you stay where you are at, you are living it now.

GEL

[Chrissy]

Gel

Do I think he can or would be willing to try. Yes to a point. Do I think it will ever get to the point where I do feel safe or change our relationship truth be told I am questioning that.
H's behavior has been changing for the better in ways over the last few months. His outburst are less often. His treatment of the kids much better. And even the shut the [censored] ups and threats towards me have dwindled. But I still feel the same towards him as when they were every day occurences. And I still question if I have enabled him to change since I no longer rock the boat I do it his way since when I do rock it ever so slightly those behaviors resurface briefly.

And this part oddly is not about him. It is about me if I can move past all the damage. And quite frankly if I want to continue to put the effort into trying to work through it all.
Do I love him yes but sometimes love is not enough. And some times love is not strong enough to pull people through. My love for him is not a healthy love. It is tainted with alot of bad feelings. I want to be done with all of that. Not years from now. I am 41 and I don't want to die a miserable person. I may die alone but I am already alone in my soul.

And Stig give me another exercise please.
When I die there will be no viewing there will be no funeral. I decided this a few years ago. Maybe because I knew/felt it would be a waste of money since my life encircles no other people then my household that would feel a need to show up. Or maybe because I hate going to funerals more then I hate going to weddings not sure the reason but my brain will not wrap around something that would be so hypothetical since I have already made this choices.