We were good drinking partners with french benifits. So in essense I am just paying for my previously loose morals if you go all the way back. My bed to lie in. That response says a lot about why you are living like this Chrissy. Sounds to me like you don't really believe you deserve better. Until you work on that self-esteem (Hi Chrome!), you will never reach a place in your R that will feel satisfying to you.
Well no he was just a party pal that I started sleeping with and ended up pregnant by the rest is history.
Fascinating. I met my wife on a rebound from a 5 year relationship. I knew she wasn't my type and was just killing time when she got pregnant. The parallels are quite interesting. I did grow to love her far more than I did when I married her. In fact, sometimes (and I have voiced this to her) I feel life would be a lot easier if I didn't. I could cut my losses and move on as the kids are just about grown. The fact is I do love her greatly. There is much to admire about her. She is a great mother and a very upstanding person. She is organized where I am not, she is practical and down to earth where I am a dreamer, she is very thoughtful of others. She just isn't as affectionate, as sexual, or as philosophically and emotionally deep as I would like. Trying to reconcile these conflicting feelings and needs is starting to wear me out.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I seem to remember now that our storys were a like.
Like you I also have felt that this would be easier if I did not love my H at all. But it goes a little past that also and may have been some of your reasoning earlier on
I could cut my losses and move on as the kids are just about grown
My boys are 15 13 11 yes nearly grown in some ways so far to go in others. And cutting my losses entails incurring other loses I am not willing to take.
My boys are southern born and raised. Every thing they know and everyone they love is here. I am a northern born and raised other then my boys and my husband I have no one here. No support at all. No reason to stay here. Going back to Ohio for good is out of the question until they are older. It is very ingrained in me that mothers do not leave there children nor do I want to. And taking my kids to Ohio is out of the question since there father is here. So another dilemia I cannot change at this point so I stay for them and to be with them regaurdless of how much the cost to myself.
She just isn't as affectionate, as sexual This would be on my list of complaints my H has about me
or as philosophically and emotionally deep as I would like. This would be on my list of complaints about my H.
Neither one of us were these things when we meet. We may have seemed this way due to beer induced vision and behavor at the time. Sadly it is not just about what I am doing without that makes me so sad at times it is about what both of us are doing without that makes me feel so desperate.
Trying to reconcile these conflicting feelings and needs is starting to wear me out.
I think this is where I have been over the course of the last few years. I start to look for ways to make it better then get so frustrated that I resign myself to it just is what it is. Then one day I wake up and the cycle starts over again. Some of that circular illogic chasing your tail mind frame.
I will never threaten to leave again as a means of control. That part is gone completely. It causes me problems setting boundries as others have pointed out to me here as the ultimate boundry is one that I cannot set without looking like I am backsliding.
Baltoman
You can state your boundaries. You can enforce them IE, I will not be treated like this. Stop. Knock if off, or leave. etc. without threatening to leave. That is a power play/negative push that hits at there security need. They readily comply, which is a show of respect, and appreciate this exhibit of strength.
You cannot force boundaries on another person IE tell them what to do, how to do etc. Well actually you can to a very large extent with women but they will resent it and it will be to your detriment. When they respect you (see above for one way to earn this, they typically wont do things that are damaging to the R. In fact they are constantly () looking for ways to make it "better".
Fine line.
Ive recently had a realization on attraction. If your so inclined drop me an email. Id like to share it with you. Its in my profile.
Somehow I'm gonna try and tie together a number of insights from the thoughtful OP on SSM and toss in an observation or 2 FWTW.
Like you I also have felt that this would be easier if I did not love my H at all. But it goes a little past that also and may have been some of your reasoning earlier on...
- Ah. This is the newest positive I'm seeing. Love. Hey, it's not all roman candle fireworks at this point but WTH it never usually is after 17 years in the trenches. Solid foundation even if you don't believe your R ever had one.
So to blackfoot's point, this is one part of the whole to focus upon. The other one I noticed earlier is your recognition H is becoming a "wonderful father." That's outstanding. It wasn't that long ago when it seemed like your boy/s couldn't stand to be around him. That's a long way to come. Good for him. He's trying to do this for himself but, most importantly in his mind at least, for you.
Which goes to Cobra's point. Yes. He needs you. It's hard to see on your end but try and imagine if you were feeling needy and he started drawing away from you or pushing you away. Fear of abandonment sucks. The more control he tries to assert over not letting you go...and breathe on your own...the more you fight to push him away...which, in turn, feeds right back into his need to try and control a situation he now feels slipping beyond his grasp as he watches you pushing him away.
No, doesn't make sense. But emotions have a nasty way of btch-slapping sense sometimes...and he remains in his fearful fog. The fog that Balto now refers to. Where an epiphany is needed for H.
Next. OM. It's over. Buried. Hasta. Fantasyland.
And I once had this really really really cute girlfriend in the 4th grade. Barrel racer. I used to carry her saddle for her everywhere in a little boy puppy baby alpha manner (hey give me a break; all little boys are alphas; that's why they dip ponytails into inkwells, 'kay? Only when we grow up do we become doormats and stop being mean and teasing.)
Anyway, so I can sit here and dream about what life would be like with cute dimpled cheek Debbie as gumdrops rained from the sky but it's all a hallucination and only a tiny point in time...certainly not 17 years. I assure you if you were with OM for 17 years you'd be annoyed by something he is or isn't doing. But that happens to us all. Like living with your high school friend or college roommate year after year for 17 years.
Gonna have times you Fing hate each other in that span. The ebb and flow of love let's call it. Like the tide. You're just stuck out on a sandbar right now looking around.
In high German it's called "wanderlust." You're just in R wanderlust right now. Usually it refers to the need to strike out on new travels/explorations/adventures.
You're also depressed a bit and coming out of winter into the rebirth of spring, so it all fosters the itch for change.
...Next...
What yourself and LFL are struggling with. Future outcomes. Future happiness. Fear. Drop it. No time machines (at least mine's still in its rudimentary form at present but taking shape nicely)
Both of you. Stop looking for winged portents in the sky...eagles with snakes in talons etc etc...for signs of what your R will be like waaay down the road. No one knows. We might just drop a nuke on Iran soon and the world will crack open. All gone. (what? no SSM?)
It goes to GEL's poignant post about acceptance. And leads to this Principle of Life:
8. There are No Ordinary Moments: The past only exists in our memory. The future only exists as our expectation. The only time that really exists is NOW. It is a precious moment and we should treat every single moment as special and live it to the full. By being in the present, we have presence. To live in the now the conscious mind should be quiet and you must focus totally on what you are doing, not what you are going to be doing next week, or what you are going to have for lunch.
...Next...
This bothers me:
So another dilemia I cannot change at this point so I stay for them and to be with them regaurdless of how much the cost to myself.
- No no no no. There is no dilemma. You are not powerless. You can change your outcome. Freewill.
15. Freedom of Choice: We all have free will, and can choose to do anything we wish. There is no situation where we do not have choice. It may appear that we do not, but there are always options, if we have the courage and strength to take them. We just have to have the courage of conviction to make the decision.
And the last line. You are all you have. Take care of self first, kids second, H last.. Do NOT accept something despite the ultimate negative cost to self. Be protective of your mind, body, and heart.
Boundaries.
Cage rattling time? Epiphany for H? Soon. And the next one should be if he lifts a finger in anger towards you one more time. It's over. And his worst fears will come true.
She just isn't as affectionate, as sexual This would be on my list of complaints my H has about me
or as philosophically and emotionally deep as I would like. "This would be on my list of complaints about my H."
- So you're admitting you know one of his LLs. But you choose to starve him of it. Feeding into his increasing insecurity. You know this right? You don't need physical touch, as you stated just that in an earlier post. He does. Doesn't mean it has to be just sex. Rub his neck. Rub his shoulders. Without prompting. Guess what? The controlling might start to magically decrease. And the ties that bind loosened. So you can breathe.
...other then my boys and my husband I have no one here. No support at all. No reason to stay here.
- Let's wait before we start planning an exit strategy maybe? Could very well be the final option but it will come of its own accord. Don't dwell on it or you'll complete the prophecy.
...and find a reason to stay. Do you have friends? It's easy to leave when you feel like an trapped alien. Grow some roots, find OP you enjoy and will miss if you leave them for good. Integrate into outside interests. Believe me. I know. Cocooning yourself with just H and kids will suck the life out of you if you don't mix in some other activities.
I know, I know. H will raise his eyebroww and start questioning out of fear of OMs showing interest. Thats why it's important for you to reassure him with his LLs. It's soothing to him. Might make him drop the leash.
Hang tight, Chrissy...
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
I love him for the strength of his love for me. But I do not share that strength of love. And I know it so it leaves me feeling pity and empathy for him which keeps me trying to find something more in our relationship.
- Ahhhhhh! I screeched to a halt at "pity and empathy." The last line. Ain't gonna happen, finding something more in the R if this is how you feel. Pity. Empathy. Man killers. Leads to straying...finding strength...assuredness elsewhere. No no no no.
Please thought stop this. Role reverse. Imagine if you knew he looked at you with pity. Kinda pizzes ya off, huh? Now, at some T and XY chromosome and triple the feeling. He wants to be DA MAN for you.
From now on, no "P" word. Or my head will pop. (to use another P word) Sheesh Chrissy.. Whew.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Neither one of us were these things when we meet. We may have seemed this way due to beer induced vision and behavor at the time. Sadly it is not just about what I am doing without that makes me so sad at times it is about what both of us are doing without that makes me feel so desperate.
Sorry, this made me chuckle. I remember on a beer and coke induced rant a buddy and I invented a political party, made war obsolete, and used a form of the olympics for border dispute resolutions. It was absolutely brilliant at the time but by morning the idea seemed stupid somehow...
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
The love I have for him has always been there it was just well hidden under the anger. I am not going to say it is a very deep love more like the way you love someone you have known most of your life.
wonderful father." That's outstanding. It wasn't that long ago when it seemed like your boy/s couldn't stand to be around him.
Very true. After I started confronting his daily tirades straight on (cussing and threatening) they have decreased. Which has allowed alot of the pent up negative emotions the kids had disperse. That has been awesome. Well at least this has been what has happened with the oldest boy and the youngest so far. The middle boy and my daughter not so much but maybe with time.
Anyway, so I can sit here and dream about what life would be like with cute dimpled cheek Debbie as gumdrops rained from the sky but it's all a hallucination and only a tiny point in time...certainly not 17 years. I assure you if you were with OM for 17 years you'd be annoyed by something he is or isn't doing. But that happens to us all. Like living with your high school friend or college roommate year after year for 17 years.
I am going to walk into the [censored] on this one. Then I am done speaking about OM.
I am not spending days hours weeks or minutes foolishly daydreaming about this person. I do reflect on the relationship as a whole a lot granted.
Second. This other person has always been in my life to some degree since age 11. Not someone I meet at work and had a few month emotional attachment to. Nor was my EA a few months long it was a few years long. That fact was why it was hard for me to see it as a EA over a friendship. Since the relationship had been sexual at one time prior to my marriage I can easily see how people would say it was more then a EA. And conceed that since we talked about sexual issues as we do here on this board just as explicitly as we do here that it was more then a EA and now just say affair to cover all grounds. (Let me side note here I could never speak to my H about the things we talk about here. G-SPOTS O's MBing none of that. But easily would be able to do so with OM just as I do here).
There is no fantasy built up around this person. There have been many sad tears cried between us. There has been just as many bad things as good things but we have always remained friends and we have always excepted bad and good about each other. This person is the closest thing to a best friend I have ever had.
But I am not looking for answers in that person I am looking for answers in what that relationship held that made us be able to go through all we have and still be there for each other and still feel connected. That is what I want to incorporate into my relationship with my H that key element that seems to be missing in this relationship.
If it were the person I wanted I know where to find them. Always have probably always will. But I have already made this bed now I am just trying to make it more comfy so I can sleep in it. So your right it is over. As in I will never be with this person.
You're also depressed a bit and coming out of winter into the rebirth of spring, so it all fosters the itch for change.
Actually I am depressed more then a bit. And yes the change of seasons though this is my favorite always makes me feel restless.
No no no no. There is no dilemma. You are not powerless. You can change your outcome. Freewill.
Why yes there is maybe I did not make myself clear. If I ever choice to leave my H. It will be with less then 4 kids in tow. I cannot change that fact. Nor can I stand the thought of not having my normal daily kiddie fix. Truth raw truth be told (Gel got me thinking about this the other day) Why do I stay what are my reasons 70% for my kids. The other 30% divided between love for my husband fear of whats to come/starting over and then fear that I might find I made a terrible mistake to late.
So you're admitting you know one of his LLs. But you choose to starve him of it.
Starve no lets just say I do not over indulge him in it lol.
I scratch his back every day sometimes twice. If we sit on the couch I will either lay my head up against him or drape my leg across him. I do the pecks hi and bye and we have sex. I even put a effort into making sure at night I sleep close enough to him to touch him (IHJ suggested this).
But H wants more then this. I am suppose to be not cuddled up but rubbing his body. Its not suppose to be a peck it is suppose to be tonsil searches and you know the rest.
Do you have friends?
I use to have lots of friends. H either scared them away or I decided it was not worth what they had to go through so walked away from them two years ago. With the exception of my family or his family and my EX's parents I have no real contact with people IRL. Except on the few occassions I go to the beach with ex's mom or go home and run into people in my home town and those are very limited events.
Ahhhhhh! I screeched to a halt at "pity and empathy." The last line. Ain't gonna happen, finding something more in the R if this is how you feel.
So I am to deny these emotions. Sheesh Here I am trying to embrace what I feel now I am back to denying it. Okay no more P words. Good thing that is not a ( cant say it) begining letter.
Meant to post this earlier but I was to busy looking for my G-spot (joking)
Decided since my feeling's of aloneness seem to be over whelming me these last few days and the fact that my depressions is more then mild. I would try to brooch the subject with H. Need I say the convo went no where fast. H was lying in bed and I was scratching his back.
I started the conversation with the fact that my depression seems to be overwhelming these days along with the feeling of being totally alone all the time. And that I felt I needed some help dealing with it. But I knew we could not afford it with the way our insurance had changed at the begining of the year.
He started on about how he does not understand what I have to be depressed about. How my depression was making him want to leave blah blah. I pulled the conversation back and said this was not about him it was about me. He said he realized that I said so how did my one sentence all of a sudden become about how you were gonna leave (he was trying to manipulate me through intimidation and I was not gonna allow it). He backed off. H rolled over on his stomach while I tried to explain to him the loneliness I feel and how it is not physical it was a inner lonliness all the while his hands going back from my breast to crotch. H did not seem to grasp the concept of anything I was saying. I layed my head on his arm back to him as he proceeded to delve deeper in my drawers, And silently the tears started to fall as I realized how fruitless any type of real connection seems between us. H realized I was crying after a few tear hit his arm I guess and stopped what he was doing to ask me if I was crying. And I told him that even with him lying there holding me it was like I was all alone. He said he did not understand I told him I know and there within lies the problem. End of conversation.
) looking for ways to make it "better". 