I think the thing many of us battle with in our R's is that with truly accepting the R (or your H) as is comes the feeling too that your are giving up on something you want.
But I think, and this is just my personal opinion here....that sometimes we just have to let go of our expectations in order for our R's to really blossom into something great. Our current R may never have some of the qualities some of our past R's have had....but it could also be much better than those other R's in many ways. So often what we harbor in our minds from the past becomes romanticized and built up into something it never was to begin with....especially when we dwell on it.
I don't think it is off base at all. Matter of fact it makes perfect sense. And yes I do remember from our talks that you are somewhat like my H. The cave reference was funny I remember your response first being your W would never want to climb around a cave and it made me chuckle.
Bucking his contol does seem like a negative thing. And probably does have the reverse effect then what I am seeking just as his need to hold on tighter to me has a reverse effect from what I am sure he is seeking.
Truth be told I am just so fed up with it and wonder if he will ever realize it is doing more harm then good. I am tired of dealing with it so responding from anger and shear frustration rather then logic and control. (of course bf says I need to loose some of my control probably not what he means though lol)
It took almost losing my W physically (and I may have lost her emotionally for good, that has yet to be determined) to be able to take a real hard look inside and see the error of my ways and to start working on changing my destructive behaviors of emotional control through intimidation and mind games (not physical intimidation but the threat of leaving, the threat that I would fight for custody of the kids, etc).
This part of your post really struck home with me.
Like your wife and you. I almost left but am still here in the physcically sense. But I don't know if emotionally I will ever reconnect with my H. No matter what his future actions. There has been a lot of damage done some of it I don't think can ever be fixed.
If you have a desire to fix the R (and it sounds like deep down there are some things you admire about him)
Yes there are things that I do admire about him or respect about him. But is that enough? That is my big hang up right now. Is this enough to base the rest of my life on. Will I ever find that fufilling enough that I don't want more. I think I can resolve myself to it for my kids sake but will that make me happy or even the H?
8 months ago when I came here I could not even say I truely had any love for my H. Gel baited me with question after question trying to get me to say I did or did not. But I was so angry with him it was blinding. That anger has ebbed away and yes today I can say I love my H to some degree and in some ways. I love him for the strength of his love for me. But I do not share that strength of love. And I know it so it leaves me feeling pity and empathy for him which keeps me trying to find something more in our relationship. Either way right now I think we are both being short changed in this relationship and I am at a lose of what to do to fill up the piggy bank. Hench my recent head banging illogical rambles.
Hope things are going better for yourself and your wife. So you say that you have changed your over controlling behavior. Is it a total change from within or a demon that you still fight?
I think the thing many of us battle with in our R's is that with truly accepting the R (or your H) as is comes the feeling too that your are giving up on something you want.
Yep that is it! I feel like there should be more to it then this. It should mean more then this.
The thought of never being touched by this person again should make you sad the thought of them dying should create total despair. When you have been seperated for days there should be a sense of longing for the other even if it is as simple as hearing there voice. If you get a promotion you feel eager to tell the other person and on and on
Those are the emotions I want to feel in my relationship. And ones that are not there so I feel like I am giving up on something I really want more of!
Why should you HAVE to have those feelings. I hate to tell you this, but I love my H dearly but the "thought" of those things doesn't give me those emotions.
The "thought" of my H dying doesn't create total despair in me....the reality of it would though.
I understand what you are saying....but I'm wondering if you aren't projecting what you think you should be feeling, what you think should be normal. Deal with your R as it is. You guys have been together awhile now, you aren't in that "honeymoon" phase where you would be likely to have those emotions at thoughts like that.
You guys know the other is there for you...so that "longing" is very likely to subside a great deal, because you have the comfort of knowing...he'll be there KWIM?
This part of your post really struck home with me.
Like your wife and you. I almost left but am still here in the physcically sense. But I don't know if emotionally I will ever reconnect with my H. No matter what his future actions. There has been a lot of damage done some of it I don't think can ever be fixed.
I know I may sound like a broken record, but have you considered, or would he consider Retrouvaille? It really helped us rediscover why we got married in the first place.
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Yes there are things that I do admire about him or respect about him. But is that enough? That is my big hang up right now. Is this enough to base the rest of my life on. Will I ever find that fufilling enough that I don't want more.
No, it isn't enough long term but it is a good start. Take a page out of BF's recent thread and focus on one thing that you admire at a time. Build up that quality and then search for another.
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That anger has ebbed away and yes today I can say I love my H to some degree and in some ways. I love him for the strength of his love for me. But I do not share that strength of love.
And I know it so it leaves me feeling pity and empathy for him which keeps me trying to find something more in our relationship.
Let me guess. When you first met him you were attracted to certain aspects of his personality. You liked that he had forceful opinions, he didn't mince words. I'll bet he could be very charming. I'd be willing to bet that others would still see these qualities that you now view as arrogance and manipulation, right? Familiarity breeds contempt. Who changed? Did he change or did your view of him change?
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Hope things are going better for yourself and your wife.
So you say that you have changed your over controlling behavior. Is it a total change from within or a demon that you still fight?
Very good question. A bit of both. I still am very forceful in my opinions but I have lost the need to win every discussion. I have learned to listen rather than debate (most of the time). I still sometimes feel that I am not allowed to voice my opinion and believe my wife is hyper sensitive to perceived slights, but I owe her this period of hypersensitivity. I will never threaten to leave again as a means of control. That part is gone completely. It causes me problems setting boundries as others have pointed out to me here as the ultimate boundry is one that I cannot set without looking like I am backsliding.
Last edited by Baltoman; 03/09/0604:10 PM.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
In reading over your complaints about your H, I see the control issues but I feel fear. My guess is this man is holding on to you for dear life out of fear of abandonment. That would not be so surprising since you have the same background. Getting him to loosen up on his control is like asking him to stop breathing. This is only my guess, but I think he needs lots of reassurance and support.
He does not realize he is controlling you because he is so scared of loss. And if he can see any controlling behavior, they are minor compared to the dread he feels could happen if he does hold on to you. Everything you mention sounds like the actions of an extremely insecure person. Why is he this way?
What would you do if your child was like this? Teach him to be more independent, more trusting, considerate of others? How would you do this? I think it would be impossible. The route I would take is to give that child all the reassurance and security needed, to the point of over-smothering, so the child becomes confident that your will never leave him, and he now wants some breathing room. Treat your husband the same way.
Again, just my guess, but I suspect he had some FOO trauma that did this to him, just as you did. He is emotionally still a child in this regard. He needs to realize this and how it impacts you. But because he does not do so, you see it as insensitivity, uncaring, even meanness. He can probably make similar claims about you. But these are all symptoms. They are not the cause. And focusing on the symptoms is causing resentment to build in you, causing you to erect walls. This diverts you from the true response he wants, which is compassion, understanding, assurance – the very same things you want.
This is almost identical to my situation with my wife. She is very independent, avoiding emotional engulfment, putting up a strong front, being the empowered liberated woman. I have my own abandonment issues and her outward actions only make my reactions worse. Her actions anger me and come across as a power struggle. I react and the cycle builds. What she wants is just what I want and what I said you want. But until we could both see that truth, we were focused on reading the signals the wrong way and making the wrong assumptions. Once we could see through the fog, we came to understand the true meaning of what our actions were trying to say. Then we could approach each other with compassion.
The difficult part is 1) understanding this truth within you and then 2) getting through that fog. Your learning here is addressing point 1. Rattling his cage is how you address point 2.
Nope I am projecting what I want to feel not what I think I should.
Its not just based on thought. I have been promoted and not only did not feel a great urge to share this with who should be my best friend and mate. Never even thought of it he found out months after the fact. I have been away from my H for extended periods of time one time on and off for months. And never got excited at the thought of seeing him. Never just missed his voice.
Okay so I have not experienced the he died thing, But when say he is really late and I think well wonder if he got in a accident. My inter response is well someone will call. No pang of omgishness.
Sorry I want these feelings. I want all these things to matter to me within my relationship and feel like we are both being short changed without it.
Is this logical maybe not. But sharring nothing but a house and a bed and parental responsiblities being the basis of a relationship does not seem logical to me either. I thought a marriage was about sharring your life your hopes and dreams your tears and your laughter. None of that lives in this house.
Let me guess. When you first met him you were attracted to certain aspects of his personality. You liked that he had forceful opinions, he didn't mince words. I'll bet he could be very charming
Well no he was just a party pal that I started sleeping with and ended up pregnant by the rest is history. The relationship never held long term qualities from my side. We were good drinking partners with french benifits. So in essense I am just paying for my previously loose morals if you go all the way back. My bed to lie in.
Lots has changed since then we no longer drink for one. That is a big one (I have considered starting again). We no longer live a party atmosphere. We have butt loads of responsiblities to not only our selves but our kids. And gosh that list can go on and on.
Our foundation is rocky. I am not trying to get back to that. But you would think in 17 years we could have grown from that point and formed some form of EC and solid foundation by now. Or atleast real friendship and a little depth to our relationship
Very good question. A bit of both. I still am very forceful in my opinions but I have lost the need to win every discussion. I have learned to listen rather than debate (most of the time). I still sometimes feel that I am not allowed to voice my opinion and believe my wife is hyper sensitive to perceived slights, but I owe her this period of hypersensitivity. I will never threaten to leave again as a means of control
I think this is awesome. I am sure it has taken a lot to get you to this point. I hope it gets as natural as breathing for you at some point.
It causes me problems setting boundries as others have pointed out to me here as the ultimate boundry is one that I cannot set without looking like I am backsliding.
I understand that. You played that card to many times for it to have any effect as a boundry anyhow. I have this problem with H when he threatens something. I view it as hollow and meaningless since he has threatened it in the past. So his words ring hollow in my ears. One day he may be serious and I may never realize it until after the fact. But I just view it as more of his control tatics right now.
This kind of brings me back around to "some people just aren't meant to be together". I remember thinking back on some of your other posts that you've stated several times....you guys (or at least you) have never had a good foundation for an R with this man....it's never had long-term qualities to it.
Sometimes people can build something from nothing, sometimes they can't. So, if in your view this R has never had long-term qualities to it....then why are you working so very hard at making this R last? If it's for your kids...well, many people don't live together who have children and the children are fine....and in fact often thrive away from a stressful environment.
You've told us you don't like how he treats you and you don't like his controlling manner; I for one can only imagine how difficult that would be to live with. So....what would have to change within your R for you to feel you could form the EC you find necessary for this R to have long-term qualities? Do you believe those changes can happen?
