I am terribly sorry to hear about how your W doesn't appreciate your KINDNESS towards her. Just talking to you and hearing all of your knowledge, you have so much ability to be a successful husband if she would just open her eyes and see that. I would be lost without you. You have been giving me great advice and I really appreciate it deeply. I can't express in words how much your mentorship has meant to me. You were the 1st person when I was crushed and I didn't even know you. But you lifted me up and allowed me to see things from a different perspective. You gave me strength. I wish there was something that I could do to help you Frank. Don't give up!
God Bless, OneWish
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
I must apologize to you. I've been posting on your thread out of my desire to see you pull through this, and I thought offering your Ws perspective might be helpful, even as a reminder when we're so red with frustration. I feel so badly now, because I am afraid that you might think that I am blaming you, or telling you that you deserve this. YOU DO NOT.
I do not assume that you don't understand your W, her perspective. I do not assume that you are not a good H, that you have not worked hard to help you and your M.
You have phenomenal patience and grace. Again, I apologize if I was insensitive or offensive in any way.
I am not trying to speak for Frank but I am sure he would say you have not done anything wrong or anything that made him feel worse. Please don't think that you did.
Frank just needs some time alone right now to figure out what he needs to do to best take care of himself. He'll be okay - and he'll let us know he's okay - just as soon as he works a few things out in his head and heart.
I just wanted you know that I really am sure you didn't do anything to upset his situation further.
Quote: You were the 1st person when I was crushed and I didn't even know you. But you lifted me up and allowed me to see things from a different perspective. You gave me strength. I wish there was something that I could do to help you Frank. Don't give up!
OneWish
You did do something to help me. You helped yourself.
I never give up. Sometimes I need to know where to put my energies. Now I know.
There isn't anything anyone has said the past couple days that I took in a negative way.
For those of you who have experience with someone in a depression, let me explain that even in the low state of emotion I had been in, I could still outperform most average engineers and still be considered a great asset to my clients. I am an extreme 'Type A' personality who is driven to succeed. But I hated myself and I drank every night so I would not feel the pain. Now I don't drink and I don't hate myself.
And, because of my strong and nurturing personality I have a tendancy to attract people who are 'needy'. And not set boundaries. My W is one of those people.
I have been fighting TWO battles. The one to pull myself up out of the hole I was in and the one to survive the destruction of my marriage and save my wife from her own emotional self destruction. To carry the kids and her through the Xmas holidays while she was falling apart, and to pick her up after her OM turned out to be a loser, an emotional predator, and hurt her badly.
In the past day of posting and yelling I had to 'vomit' up the anger, the hurt, the frustration with W and how I see that she has been pulling me down for years with her neediness. All the things she has done are indicative of her past behaviors. She is needy, and doesn't know how to be in a relationship. She is codependent. She is lost.
She came towards me 2 weeks ago, we shared several days of intimacy, caring. Then she suddenly shut it off. I spent the past week or so totally disoriented. Then, the past few days I realized that part of my growth and healing of MYSELF meant that I had to choose between W or I. Who would I save?
I can only save one of us right now. If I save ME, perhaps there will be others in my life who I will have the privilege to inspire, and teach. Perhaps W will be inspired or see what she has lost. Perhaps I will do 'great things' with my life.
If I continue to work so hard to save her, to save our 'marriage', I will lose both battles. So I had to REALLY get angry and REALLY show myself how my efforts have gone unacknowledged by her. Not because she is heartless and cruel, but because she is blind.
And, here is a realization I had with Counselor today: Remember that OM was an emotional predator who lives off the emotions of women. Well, during that period of time, especially Xmas time, she was getting most of her support from ME, and he was getting his stuff from HER. So, in reality, he was taking energy from ME, and she was the conduit.
Kind of sick.
So, I will quit trying to do things that will 'get her to change'. We all call it detaching, and that word suits me fine. Being a 'problem solver' I HAD to list all the reasons she did NOT deserve me so I can see that the problem is not mine to solve. As I said, "God can have her, and good luck".
Of course I still love her, and I think there is a better way for her to grow than the path she has chosen. Since I KNOW what I did wrong in this relationship, I KNOW what to do (or not) to enable her to heal and grow while IN the relationship. Until she sees that though, I have to save myself. I had to see that she IS LOST by venting 'out loud' the facts about who she is, and what she has been doing in my posts. So I COULD SEE IT MYSELF.
I don't hate her, I hate what she's doing, and what she's done. I forgive her, I just can't give her anything more. I need it for myself. And that's where I'm at with her. I must be in order so I can do what I am meant to do.
In the end, perhaps my W will turn out to be wrong for me, not strong enough to go with me. Or, she will see me for who I always was, she knows that man already. She has to figure it out herself. I hope God works on her quickly, I have a lot I want to do with her.
Luckily I have an office where I can stay late, and a lot of work to do. So I can limit my interactions with her, which will help me to stop putting energy in that direction. And perhaps she will miss me.
Regardless, I'm ok. I feel in control. Of me. Don't forget that in your whole life, you are the only one who will always be with you. So you better nurture that relationship because you can't walk away from you. Not for long anyway.
And remember what they tell you when they read the safety procedures to you on airliners:
"Always put the Oxygen mask on YOURSELF BEFORE assisting others"
W: Hi, I wanted to let you know what's going on with D15 tonite.
Me: ok.
W: Well, she's all upset because you haven't been home the past couple nites. She's afraid you are stressing and are going to be drinking.
Me: Well, I think given the really bad stuff I've had to go through and not drank, that she would realize that isn't going to happen.
W: Well, I think what it really is is that you have been a STRONG PRESENCE IN THE HOUSE and the girls are missing it, and SO AM I. It seems like the house energy is out of balance. I know you are working hard on your projects, and I want to let you know that I appreciate what you do for the family. (Ah ha, Counselor got to her today)
Me: Well, I only need another day to get back on track so it'll be fine.
W: She's also worried about me leaving for 5 days next week. It's the first time I'll be gone since October and she's still got issues from that trip (she came back and said she wanted a divorce then) I think she's afraid you'll start drinking. (maybe she's afraid you'll find some new stupid solution to your life that will have more consequences on the family)
Me: Well, I think once she sees that isn't the case she'll be fine. And I won't be working late next week. I'll be right at home.
W: Well I hope so. D10 got needy too tonite. They have gotten used to your presence and I think it scares them when you aren't here. WE JUST FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS MISSING.
Now, I think the girls still don't feel totally safe with W after her unreliable mothering during the holidays while she was 'in love'. Either way, her ridiculous comments about how she 'missed my presence' almost made me laugh. I mean, what do you think it will be like when YOU break the family apart for good?
When will she open her eyes?
I'd like to say I feel something but I don't. Other than I see so much humor in her comments.
Tomorrow is the last nite I'll be out late, and I will make sure I come home before their bedtimes. But I still plan on detaching from W.
I almost hope she decides she wants to 'fool around' tomorrow, just so I can say 'no'. I'm being a little twisted. But I'm keeping my energy to myself. And my girls.
I may be lame, but I think it was NICE that W said those things, aren't they what you wanted to hear? I still think it's silly that she pegs your drinking as the fear and not her erratic behavior of late.
In a way, if I were to interpret, I see this as her way of complimenting you, respecting you (FINALLY) and still making her point of what was hard for her before you pulled out of depression. In a twisted way, she's saying, that was hard for me, and you're not doing that anymore, and I'm still a little mistrustful that you might again in stress, but am grateful that you're not now.
Really, I think this is what she's doing. Remember, you BOTH mistrust each others good behaviors. She is now slowly opening her eyes to your improvements, the fact taht you held it together under insane stress. She's trusting that this is real. She had you pegged to never change, so this is a shock for her.
I Do hope you see this for what it was. You are on the right track with her.
Take care of THE GIRLS. Your wife is on her own.
I think she likely exaggerated the girls issues too. Yes, they missed you but the fact that SHE misses you and SHE can't comfort THEM - ONLY YOU CAN - is the BIGGER issue.
Quote: W: ..... D10 got needy too tonite
Now perhaps this is just the way you guys speak but my first reaction was WHAT THE HELL? OF COURSE SHE IS 'NEEDY'. SHE'S 10, for God's sake!
A 10 year old NEEDS and MOM is ALSO supposed to know how to MEET that NEED. I'm sorry Frank. I don't really know why but that really burnt my biscuit!
Bottom line, you're doing fine where W is concerned. Just take care of your girls. I know you will
Glad to hear you are doing well and I so appreciated your "rant". I've done that a hundred times either to the wall, a friend of mine, and on this board. Great way to vent the frustration.
Quote: I can only save one of us right now. If I save ME, perhaps there will be others in my life who I will have the privilege to inspire, and teach. Perhaps W will be inspired or see what she has lost. Perhaps I will do 'great things' with my life.
I still see you with the upperhand overall. Our WAW's will naturally vacillate as they find their way - and yes it's frustrating. You know, for what it is worth, I love how Gray describes our Venus counterparts as a wave - rising and crashing. As we start to recognize the oscillation we start to see and understand more - and are better equipped (for *OURSELVES*) to deal with it. Tough thing for us Type A's (Driver types) to not be able to use data and problem solving techniques to fix these things. Until we distance and say "that's a problem I'm not going to try and fix", we cannot be liberated.
Lastly, I loved:
Quote: "Always put the Oxygen mask on YOURSELF BEFORE assisting others"
Exactly. Lifting someone up, usually means your underneath them which means they will likely fall on you when you cannot carry them anymore. Not good. I'd rather be in a position of reaching a hand down into the well and pull "UP" - but know that I can let go if it becomes too much. Of course that means someone might fall back into the well. Now that's sick...
You're the man. Hang in. Sounds like you found your center again....
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
