Quote: I'm glad hse has these friends who help straighten her out and keep her on the divorce track so she can 'find herself'. God forbid she might be able to do that AND stay married. What a sad society we live in. So much self centeredness.
Not much to add here. Just a great big AMEN! It is pitiful.
But do press on. The good guys do always win, right?
Quote: But do press on. The good guys do always win, right?
We can always redefine 'winning' to suit our situation. If winning means to get divorced and then move on to a new life with a broken family in the hopes that it will be a happier life, then I'm winning!
She did ask me to go for a power walk with her this morning so I did. We just got back. Most of what we talked about was 'How should she file her taxes in 2006 since we won't be divorced yet?" and her anxieties about her new career moves. She wasn't looking for support, just needed to talk about it. She has it all planned out, her life, her career. She got a 'reading' from her 'destiny cards' while at her friends this past weekend and they told her it was all going to work out for her. And she said they have been right so far in her past few months. Isn't that great?
She's very emotionally detached from any feelings for me. It comes across in her voice and her tone. I'm sure me being down about the changes in her attitude isn't helping. I wish I didn't care.
Quote: We can always redefine 'winning' to suit our situation. If winning means to get divorced and then move on to a new life with a broken family in the hopes that it will be a happier life, then I'm winning!
Good Lord! That's sarcasm at it's finest, Frank! Good job! (See I'm good, too! )
No. When I say 'win' I mean our marriages are restored.
You need to pull out of this nose-dive you are in.
It ALWAYS, ALWAYS will get worse before it gets better.
You need to get your focus OFF of HER and back ONTO your GROWTH. You can't help her, really.
You are THE consummate "fixer". Rein it back in, Frank.
Quote: You need to get your focus OFF of HER and back ONTO your GROWTH. You can't help her, really.
You are THE consummate "fixer". Rein it back in, Frank.
You can do this.
Yeah, luckily I saw Counselor today. She said she thinks that the 2 'friends' are a negative influence. That the 'mood swing' might be 'manic'. She thinks I should give it a week or so and see if she swings the other way.
She says the biggest problem I have is, if you take away the past 4 months of the 'divorce' and 'affair', you still have left "Frank going from big long 5 year depression to functional again in 4 months". Or, as she put it, "You compressed a years worth of work into 4 months AND at the same time had to deal with all the crap you have been dealing with, AND be the strong parent in the family". That would wear anyone out, and W just does not see that. She is expecting me to be the 'old frank' when she backs off from me, but doesn't clue into the things I've been through lately that would kick ANYONES butt into needyness.
So, I take these back and forth changes very hard. And I put more meaning into them than is really there.
Her opinion about the 'downturn' in W's attitude is partly the influence of 'friends' and partly W becoming afraid that we were getting 'needy' for each other. So she may very well be detaching to see what I'll do. And what I've 'done' is get all worried and that sends her 'vibes' that I am still 'needy', which feeds the problem even more.
The 5 days we spent being closer and intimate gave her an opportunity to see how 'good and caring' I am. I've also been feeling like she just 'used me' to feel better after her bad experience with OM. C said that maybe she did a little, but she also got to see what she would be leaving if she finishes what she started.
The problem is W has NO IDEA what I am feeling, what I have been through with my own sh*t, independent of living her sh*t, so she isn't going to cut me any slack. She doesn't SEE any of the things I've had to do in the background to hold her and the kids together. She doesn't SEE the going from depression to carrying all the burden of our relationship.
She SEE's a guy who is a little like her old husband, but is more calm and caring. She has no idea. And I can't tell her.
I mentioned the comments of some of the women on this board, that I'm a pretty good and caring man, and that any woman would be lucky to have me. And that W doesn't seem to want me, or see that about me. C of course says that W hasn't seen what I've been going through to care for her and my family during all her craziness, so she can't feel the same way.
So, C suggests I get out of the house, be less available, let her miss me, stop caring so much, and all this will help keep me sane. Don't get into her space, let her approach me, and stop trying so hard. She thinks then the pendulum will swing back the other way again.
It's weird. C talks to W so she knows stuff she doesn't tell me of course. She seems to focus on W not thinking clearly, and not on W being 'determined' to get divorced.
I just feel tired. I can still fake it with W and look 'happy', just not REALLY happy.
I hear ya on being tired...just pick up and go at it again.
You ARE a great guy! You have made tremendous changes and strides, that your W will no doubt see. Just remember, she has 5 years of memories to undo, and it takes time. Also, think of where you were months ago, she has come far...give it a little time. In the meantime, detach, be yourself and not needing her. Let her sort herself for now...don't drag yourself into it. You've spent lots of time figuring things out for YOU, you've done your work, don't undo it getting into her personal work.
If the IC sees both of you, then I think she would not be giving advice that would fly in the face of what W wants. So, if she's telling you to keep trying, then it means that there is hope with W?
Keep it up. Focus on the positives about YOU. Easier said than done, I know (having a frustrating night myself).
Her opinion about the 'downturn' in W's attitude is partly the influence of 'friends' and partly W becoming afraid that we were getting 'needy' for each other. So she may very well be detaching to see what I'll do. And what I've 'done' is get all worried and that sends her 'vibes' that I am still 'needy', which feeds the problem even more.
I am going to print that out with others I have so i can read them over and over.
You know one thing that I have been able to tell I am moving forward and getting Me back is teh amount of time it takes me to get my head on straight after pinging (AmyC).
Well, tonite I am falling down. W came into my office and said I seemed a little 'out of sorts' and wondered what was up. I was on the phone and told her it was a tough day with work. Smiled. Partly that is true.
I am pretty beat up emotionally. 4 weeks ago I had gotten myself to the place I needed to be with W. I was detaching. We hade nice, polite and respectful interactions. I had accepted my fate and was letting her go, out of my heart. I had spent all the strength I had just to get out of my years of depression. I was doing for myself.
Then she fell apart. She reached out to ME. I gave all I had left to lift her back up. She seemed to come closer. We shared some intimate times. But then she got scared. She went to visit one of her toxic friends and came back totally shut off.
It affected me. I didn't mean for it to, it just did. I felt like I was going back to square one all over again. Losing her all over again. It probably wouldn't have been so bad, other people on the board go through these extremes.
When I look at myself I realize that I'm not 'well' yet. LIke my counselor said, I've only begun to battle my years of depression so I shouldn't expect so much from myself. Just doing THAT is a monumental task. Depressions are hard to beat. 4 months are not enough to do it in. And under the conditions I've been having to work under, well, they haven't exactly been ideal.
So today W is seeing me be down, needy, sad, hurt you name it. I didn't want her to but it's where I am at right now.
I DO need someone to care for me sometimes. Right now, at this point in my life, I do. But there's only me. W blew me off and went to bed. I know she is thinking 'Well somethings wrong with Frank, I'm glad he's not MY problem any more.' because she said that to me a couple months ago when I was in a state like this.
So, she's not going to do anything - she really has no idea what I have been going through. When she falls down I pick her up. When I fall down, well. I am feeling very hurt and alone right now.
Maybe she just isn't the woman for me. She gave what she could over the years and can't give any more.
Quote: you know something. You cant make a happy marriage until you are happy. That is Love or Relationship 101.
Just a thought. I think it is really important.
Of course that's true. And you know what? W is living in a false 'happy'. I know you're trying to help and this rant isn't aimed at you...
I know all the F*ing rhetoric. The 'slogans', the sayings, the lessons, the chants, sayings, whatever. "Give it to God" "Let her go" blah blah blah.
Nobody was there for me for the past many years. NOBODY.
Nobody is there for me now. If I didn't have the few friends I made on the board I'd have nowhere to go. My 'real life' friends think she is a whore for what she did, and that she is USING ME to support her until she gets on her feet and can support herself.
How about a "THANKS FRANK" from her?
These mood swings she goes through kick my ass. Why am I having to go through all this, all of it? all at once? My jobs are falling apart because I can't focus. I hurt all the time. I had 5 days where I felt normal with her and she took it allaway, now she's nothing but a detached, emotionless, 'I want what I want' woman. It seems like the only time she softens up to me is when she feels alone or needs to be supported.
How about just once she says "THANKS FRANK" for being there for me while I divorce you, for helping me find my way to a sustainable source of income while I take half your stuff. FOr picking me up emotionally when I feel afraid I won't make it, even though you are at your lowest of low?
How about that? How can someone who loved me 4 months ago feel like she can do what she is doing, and not even try to appreciate it?
Yesterday my counselor asked me a question after I said this. She asked "During your marriage, did Lorri tell you that she appreciated the work you did to support the family financially?" I had to THINK about it. I remembered maybe 3-4 times in 15 years. And most were during the depression times, when she thought she HAD to find good things to say to 'make me feel needed".
Counselor said that was not enough times for a healthy relationship. Oops, guess she didn't do so well then did she?
So gals, if you're listening, your husband NEEDS to hear that his sacrifices are appreciated.
We went for an exercise walk this morning and she was talking about how our D10 was going to Redwood middle school this next fall. I ALMOST said "You think so? Well we're going to have to sell our F'king house this summer since I am not going to be able to pay for you to have a place to live and I sure as hell don't want to live with you any more by then if you can't commit to a relationship!!!!!!!" So D10 will be going to whatever school is in the area "I" end up living in. You will end up in Simi or Moorepark where it's affordable housing. ALL ALONE. IN a studio apt. Isn't that great?"
"Oh, and I'm glad you were able to spend the "special" times with me a couple weeks ago, reaffirming your 'womanhood' after your "soulmate" did't quite work out. Whoopsie! Glad I could be of service. I hope I didn't catch anything. And let me pay for you the rest of your life too. It's what I live for. But don't BOTHER EVER THINKING THAT YOU might, just might, ever have to be supportive of ME. Just take from me like you always have.
I'm a bottomless well of strength and support.
The anger, hatred and rage I have towards this 'woman' is immense right now. Luckily I can get out and go to my office and not go home tonite till everyone is in bed.
Quote: Amy:
As I said yesterday, you can't help her. And if you neglect yourself much longer you won't be able to help ANYONE and that includes your kids.
The only way to help myself is to get rid of her. She is toxic. On the surface she is a sweet woman. Inside she is selfish. SHe doesn't want me, so why am I helping her? She didn't help me when I was in need. In my WHOLE life no woman has ever treated me like this.
Help her do WHAT? She has her life all planned out. WHAT does she need help with? Oh wait, sometimes she feels scared so she needs me to whine at.
Yes, I do want her to be a success at her career. But what about me? It isn't fair, I've had enough. Where is my share of love and support and life? She takes more than she gives.
And her two best friends are the biggest losers on the planet. They support her stupid decisions because they are stupid. The friends that AREN'T she won't talk to because they might tell her things she doesn't want to admit to. Gee Lorri, you actually DO love Frank. He actually IS a good man. Oops, that would mean you - made a big mistake! You're 'knight in shining armor' you ran off to didn't save you. You have to face your life .... but don't worry ... you can still run away because Frank is such a GOOD man he will take care of you while you run. And you don't have to be grateful at all! Cool!
But then, she has been timidly bumbling through her whole f'ing life living off me emotionally, and for a short while her 'knight' too. Whoops, forgot, HE was living off HER, While SHE was living off ME.
I am a man of my word, of integrity. I made promises. I will keep them. I just cannot believe I am being treated like this by my childrens mother. I keep having to push the thoughts out of my mind that she is just - STUPID.
I hate that part. Thinking she is STUPID, because I have had to defend her so many times to D15, who is intellectually like me. We talk abut things that are over W's head and D15 will comment on 'mom won't get it'. I tell her not to speak that way about her mom. I've been always defending her, protecting her when I can. Where is the thanks? I guess because I let my own life slip up I don't get a thanks. It's been negated by here 'suffering'.
I can feel myself shutting down, letting it turn to total emotional disconnect. I don't care what happens to her any more. Even if she has to live in a flea infested dump somewhere. Too bad. She won't make it. She won't make it without SUPPORT. because SHE is not ME. I MAKE IT. No matter what.
The problem for HER is that the next time she needs support she can go to hell. Boo Hoo. Maybe she can find some new guy to screw in exchange for fake love. She's pretty enough and nice to everyone else so I'm sure there are other suckers out there.
I won't be there any more. I quit. She's not worth it. Unless she wakes up, at the end of March I'm telling her that we will be selling the house in June, she can take her half and get the f*uck out, and by the way, enjoy your life.
The kids will just love her for that. But, if she doesn't love me and doesn't want to work on our marriage and family then what am I waiting for? This is not my idea of 'fun' any more.
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