Glad to see you around today. Was a little worried about ya! It seems like a really big improvement on the sexual side of things...I am glad to hear he is letting that side of him out.
It really makes one wonder why he pent all that up. You made mention in another post that you didn't really feel that it was an addition so to speak. It sounds like that maybe it was/is a little. It becomes habit, just like the lack of sex, or the lack of trying or creativitly or what have you. It's great tho, that you are both seeing a C. You are both working at this, it's not just one sided anymore (even tho he was going before). It sounds wierd, but installing that software and finding out all that info was the best thing that could have happened to your M. Otherwise it probablly woudl have kept on going the way it was and perhaps even ended.
Have a great day, Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
I still do not believe he has or had an addiction. My gut still tells me it was more of an avoidance tool, not so much an addiction. As long as he used that method to have his needs met....it was much easier to avoid me. Remember too that getting his needs met on the internet was completely non committal....those people couldn't hurt him. If someone didn't respond to an e-mail, it was no big deal....he didn't take that as rejection.....it was safe for him, wrong, but safe.
There's lots more to this, but I do believe his sexual avoidance goes way back.....and has had something to do with the women he's chosen throughout his life....and I'm absolutely sure, he's contributed to the demise of his past R's as well....whether or not those women were controlling (or whatever).
I think you are absolutely right on the whole internet/non-committal thing. Internet R's and one-night-stands (not saying he went there) are easy. Just like we have legions of kids and young adults these days addicted to computer gaming because if you die, you just load a saved game, if you get tired, you drink a potion, if you can't get past a difficult part, you type in a cheat code. It is natural to want to take the easier path, its just sometimes we don't see the consequences of taking that path. I think your H got caught up in that path and didn't want to see the consequences.
One question. Does his eagerness seem real to you? Does your gut tell you that he is honestly coming to you with more true desire in his heart? I think your woman's intuition can tell you a lot here as to whether this is a long term change or just short term placating. It sounds to me as if you feel this is a good thing. I certainly hope so.
Best wishes Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
One observation for you all though. I've noticed that lately, since the A-Bomb dropped in the GEL household that when we do ML my H has absolutely no problem getting hard....non whatsoever, in fact it happens much quicker than it had in the past. I'm not sure what to attribute that to and I'm not going to spend much time trying to figure that out, doesn't really matter...but it's definitely a nice change.
My personal opinion to this is one of two things or maybe both.
There is no longer a lie standing between you to get in the way. The pressure of hiding that part of himself is gone.
You have excepted him at his worse and though angry did not run for the hills in disgust of him. You still love him. Which is allowing him to open up more to you in his sexual nature. He no longer feels he has to hide it and stuff it. It has enabled him to feel comfortable in his own skin with you. Only example I can think of is how my H use to deny he MB was actually critical of people for such a thing. Once I got him to do it in front of me and he realized I accepted the behavior (not the lies) and did not think he was some pervert he now has no issue with me knowing he does it and has even began touching and fondling himself in my presence while having sex.(which truthfully thinking back he had never done before). Some how some where he thought that this was something that I would find disgusting so he hid that part of himself from me. It took my acceptance to make him open enough to be comfortable with himself. Why he felt this way??? What he felt was so wronge about it that I would not love him???? I would have never found a big issue with it. (unless it was in or around my kids or at really inappropriate times). It was him that found shame in his own sexual behavior not me. Maybe his foo kicking in there. But it does sound alot like your H and his sudden ability to talk and act more sexual with you may be based in the same type of mind frame.
You have to understand right now I'm waaaaay wary of things, BUT having said that. I do think he is making some honest attempts. Of course that statement is backed up by the fact that I check up on him constantly right now, even though he doesn't know it. However, when I want to talk to him he doesn't get defensive. In the past, really, he would have by now. He's making decisions not to do things that would make him come home late, or take him away from me for hours on end on the weekend either.....which goes back to my being "siamese twins" for awhile statement. So yes, I do believe he's making honest efforts.
His behavior does seem to be changing....and that's why I say so often that "my gut feels..." however it does. I have to listen to my gut, instincts, female intuition...whatever you want to call it.
I think what Chrissy and you both said pretty much sums things up. He took the easy way....it was the wrong and hurtful way for our R, but it was the easy way for him. I honestly do believe that he thought I would be disgusted by what he fantasized about and wanted sexually speaking.....I can say that now because I've seen a change in his face when we do ML.
Tune out now kiddies if you don't want TMI....
Last week when I released my inner slut (as I like to call her...you know, the one who lives next to the 3-headed hydra and the screaming banshee)....I completely took charge of the situation. I showed him that the woman he had in his head and fantasized about was actually the woman he was married to as well.
I gave my H a BJ and he started to close his eyes and put his head back....or would get distracted by the tv. Early into everything I looked up at him and he wasn't paying attention to me (at first)....he was looking at the tv. I told him the only thing he was allowed to look at right then was ME, I wanted him to watch what I was doing...and I turned the tv off. Then I released all my best porn moves (will spare you those details). My H couldn't take his eyes off of me, he was mesmerized I swear....and it's absolutely the 1st time I've seen a real look of desire on his face. Not a going through the motions lets ML, but a real honest to goodness look of desire.
In the past he would never have watched me, or at least he wouldn't have let me catch him watching me give him a BJ. Much less look me directly in the face while I looked at him during oral sex....just wouldn't have happened....that would have been far too intimate.
That goes back to what Chrissy was saying about MB'ing. Her H thought it would disgust her. I truly believe my H thought that the fact that he would like a BJ like that....would in reality disgust me, when that was so very far from the truth. My blowing (no pun intended) that misperception out of the water, I believe, is helping him to loosen up.
That's just one of the tricks that I've pulled out of my goodie bag.....I'm not done yet. But these things are going to have to come out as I'm ready to do them....otherwise, I might just send the poor man into shock.
Remember that addiction to something doesn't only mean you can't stop doing/eating/drinking it. Addiction also means using some substance or activity to avoid painful feelings when that substance or activity's primary purpose isn't the avoidance of pain. So even if you don't overeat, when you eat for comfort instead of hunger, you are eating addictively. This isn't necessarily a problem unless it is carried to extremes, e.g., gaining 100 lbs. or ONLY eating by yourself in front of the open refrigerator in the middle of the night.
Or, another example-- having a massage because it feels good and relieves stress seems a good match to me. Going to the mall and spending $500 on stuff you don't need because it feels good and relieves stress is addictive shopping. Again not necessarily a problem unless you do it every week and you can no longer step inside your house be cause it's so crowded with stuff-- AND in addition, other areas of your life are suffering.
So IMHO if someone is looking at porn in order to avoid intimacy with the partner, or escape into a sexual trance alone, that is addictive use of porn even if it only happens once in a while. I see nothing wrong with doing that **occasionally.** The problem is when the person chooses porn regularly instead of intimacy with their partner and at the same time they withhold intimacy from a willing partner because intimacy with a partner requires pushing outside their comfort zone.
This is exactly what I had I mind when I questioned HP a long time ago about possibly being sexually addicted. I think there is a lot of this still in GEL’s husband. It may not be a bad thing though, but I think it is there. What struck me was GEL’s comment:
I've noticed that lately, since the A-Bomb dropped in the GEL household that when we do ML my H has absolutely no problem getting hard....non whatsoever, in fact it happens much quicker than it had in the past.
To me this says he is getting turned on by something different that before. That could be due to several things – 1) His defenses have come down and he is no longer trying to hide behind his walls, i.e., he “gets” it, 2) GEL is now more open, she has released the sexual demon, which he likes, he does not have to worry about rejection, even though GEL told him this hundreds of time, 3) He now has his fantasy woman in real life and he is really turned on.
I think he has had every opportunity to overcome #1 & 2, in the past. GEL has tried to push through this. But now, he realizes that # 3 is a reality and the mental pictures, fantasies, dreams are possibly what is really turning him on. I’m sure he is also happy he is doing this with GEL, but I still get the feeling there is a lot of fantasy mixed in with his response. And as long as that remains in him, I think there can be problems in the future. He can change what his fantasy is, which will differ from GEL and he will lose interest in GEL. GEL could change who she is, differing from the fantasy and again he loses interest. I think he needs to come to grips with his fantasizing (escaping, avoiding, etc.) and face some hard reality. He is like an adolescent boy looking at porno magazines. Nothing wrong with that as long as he can differentiate fantasy from reality and what really should turn him on.
So I don’t think you are out of the woods yet, GEL, but you have made huge progress and there is now light at the end of the tunnel.
Here's my $.02 that you asked for. The short version is that I agree with the others that mentioned it's easier for H. If he's rejected on-line it's not personal. It's all fantasy so he can steer/justify the fantasy R or story any way he wants. There's always a "happy ending".
I suspect that he never followed thru with actually meeting the people in person. It would require too much work. Way more pressure and work than working with you on any problems and he barely did that if at all.
Here's the long version: Like said I could relate to H. When my M was having problems (mostly just communication/conflict avoiding), W was not in the mood for ML very often. Early in the M I would MB once in a great while. W was very against it. Thought it was gross. When our problems got worse I used the internet for relief from those lusty feelings. A lot easier than spending all day(s) flirting and trying to get W warmed up for some later time when we'd maybe ML if she wasn't too tired. I didn't join anything on-line that allowed communication or anything like that. Just looking was enough.
As far as I know she never definitely knew about my pseudo addiction but she suspected. I know she felt the same as you do know. Why bother with fake sex when I could have gotten the real thing with her? My answer is that it was less work. I had pretty low self esteam at the time. I was very ignorant in the R department and how F think and talk. We didn't talk much about wants/needs in our sex life. She felt that if we were soulmates then I would just know what she wanted/needed. Yeah no wonder I'm in the mess I'm in.
I realize that the dynamics of my sitch are different than yours GEL but H's reasoning/justification seem very much like mine. I also suspect that he might slip somewhere down the line and be tempted by the on-line stuff. Just keep that in mind. I could be wrong though. Just my opinion.
To add to Chrissy's point about her H wanting to hide his MB. Guys are brought up hiding it through puberty. We're told a real man doesn't do that stuff. Or if we are doing that then our W/GF is not doing something right. Don't want to hurt her feelings. Just explaining why he was confused by his realization that you weren't bothered by it.
