GEL, I've been reading about your sitch. Mind boggling to say the least. After all that counseling, he claims he didn't believe you when you said you wanted the R to be more sexual? I'm not doubting he said that or meant it... but yikes! I think he has a lot in common with my bf, namely wanting it but being scared of it, too.
In my new fav book (well one of my two new favs) Reclaiming Healthy Sexual Desire, she has a stream-of-consciousness monologue of what kind of thoughts canrun through a guy's head before sex (this was written by a man, one of her clients)...I thought about posting this on my thread, but so much of this sounds like your H could have said it (and my bf, and Mr Honey, and possibly Mr. Karen, too)...
Quote: Where's the rule book, how do I do this? Oh performance, can I keep it up, will I come too soon? But then what if I do it too well and you will want to consume me and smother me? Be careful, don't look at her, don't be too open. My fears say you don't really like sex, you want something from me, You don't really love me, you just want something, You are disgusted by me and my penis is disgusting. It's dirty and smelly and you think I want to control you with it. Then they say you like sex and all you want to do is use me. You just want a hard penis to do what you want with. All I am is a hard penis to you, a servant, your gigolo.
Men are disgusting. "Men," my mother said with disgust. So I didn't want to be a man. Yet at the seme time, a man is defined by how hard his c0ck is. So don't have any of your feelings. It's easier for a women to become just a sex object and you just a machine.
If I put my hand on your breast, you would think it was inappropriate-- and a lot of men before me were inappropriate because they have shut off their feelings to live up to the requirements. So why should you trust me? And I have shut off my feelings, too, and created a lot of distrust. I touched breasts when I didn't see the rest of the woman, and then when they objected I thought it was me they didn't like. But I couldn't look at the whole woman, it was too frightening to see her. She might be seeing me the way my mother saw men, She might not know I am not one of those men-- but there I was acting just like one because I was afraid of her reactions. And now that I am ready to see all of you, I'm afraid it's too late.
Men excuse their behavior by saying their penis doesn't have a conscience. It controls them., This means they can't be trusted about anything sexual. If you believe this, then you shouldn't trust me. I don't want to be one of them but I am born with a penis, And I like my penis. I don't want to abandon it because women won't trust me with it. I do have a conscience about my sexuality, and I want you to know it. If I shut down when we are sexual, it is because of all the fear from years of training. See past it. I am not how my mother said men are.
I set it up so you come after me because that will mean you really care for me and love me. But you feel that I don't really want sex. If I pursue you, I am sure you will find my sexual feelings and wanting of you disgusting and inappropriate. But if you pursue, then my performance stuff comes up. I have to do it right just the way you want it. So I want to pursue, but if I do then I can't believe you are really loving me. I have to do it as long as you want because if I don't, I am less than a man. I am only as valuable as I am able to perform.
If I come before you do, then you will think sex is over and I won't want to be involved with your orgasm. You think sex is disgusting for me if I don't get aroused again. I assume you are pissed off and disappointed because the only way you can have any pleasure is if I have an erection. When we do continue to be sexual, I am amazed that you still want to be sexual.
Then there are the times when I think you want to just suck me up into you through your vagina. I feel like I'll never be my own person again, I'll be lost. Even though sometimes when our bodies seem to melt into one it feels so incredible, and I want to do it again and again. But then I don't want to have sex and then I think I should because me are supposed to want to.
I can't rouch your breast when we aren't having sex because I think it will be disgusting to you. I don't know when you will be receptive, even thought I know you so well in all other ways, I am very sensitive to your moods and what your body communicates when he hug. I know when you want to be hugged and when you don't. But I lose that ability to know when I reach out to touch your breast. My feelings get shut off and then it proves to you that I am not open to your needs and feelings. And so it is just easier to not have sex. Or to space out and leave you when we do, But I have lost the ability to do that. Our relationship has become too real because we talk about everything and know each other so well. You'd think that if I knew you so well, I would with sex, too, but it is harder with sex. And since I haven't expeained these things to you, then you don't know me either. So let's just not have sex!
But that's not an option. I want to be sexual with you. I love you and I am spending my life with you. And when these voices are quiet, the sexual loving is something I have never known.
Jeeze, lil. about 75 percent of that goes/has gone through my head at one time or another. Hard to believe I still want to ML after hearing all that crap bouncing around my skull.
Yes, but the fact is you still DO-- even with a woman who treats you like cr@p... how do you explain that when my bf DOESN'T want to even with a woman who treats him like a king?
Quote: Yes, but the fact is you still DO-- even with a woman who treats you like cr@p... how do you explain that when my bf DOESN'T want to even with a woman who treats him like a king?
Yes, but your bf is probably happier to be in a relationship with you than HD is to be married to his wife. People generally want to be in relationships with people who are generally nice to them but they don't generally want to f*ck people because they are nice. Having sex with his W is win-win situation ego-wise for HD and a lose-lose situation for your bf ego-wise at the moment. Of course, being b*tchy isn't really a solution to your problem because though it might make your bf want to f*ck you in defense of his ego, it would also make him not want to be in a relationship with you.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Actually, HD, considering what you're up against, I greatly admire you for still being in the game. That speaks very highly of your character. Of course, Schnarch says that we do tend to choose partners who are fairly evenly matched with us as sparring partners, so hearing about your W tells us a lot about you, too! Glad to once again make your acquaintance!
Quote: Lil,
I doubt it's that he doesn't want to, but rather that he feels that he *can't*.
ED only physically impairs one thing: intercourse. It doesn't physically impair making love or any other physical activities (including F to M oral). The impairment to making love is all emotional and psychological.
The ED is an EXCUSE for not pushing through the discomfort of the emotional obstacles.
My H is continuing to discuss things with me as I bring them up....without becoming defensive about it. I hadn't brought up what he'd done in a few days, but this weekend while we were in the kitchen I did. I've had a very tough time lately wrapping my mind around how he could lie to me for so long, and continue to do what he was, while we were paying for counseling for that issue......so I asked him about it. I told him that this is one of the issues I have right now with trusting him....it's not the only one, but it's a biggie. Basically....I told him I was having a very tough time reconciling how he could do that to me for years when we were going to counseling and spending money trying to "work on our marriage", with sex as one of the big issues.
His past behavior would have had an automatic defensive response to my asking this for the umpteenth time. He didn't take that stance with me though. He did tell me that he knew what he was doing was "wrong" and that at first he really didn't think he was doing anything hurtful, must looking at pictures....but the longer it went on the more he knew it would be. He didn't have all the answers for me at this time that I needed to hear, and maybe will never have ALL the answers to satisfy me....but he did tell me it was something he discussed with our MC in his individual session....and it's something we'll talk more about with her together.
I let it go at that point (cause we were all feeling puny this weekend and I didn't feel like getting into a long discussion). But, he knows this isn't just going away...he has a lot of work to do....and I have asked him to really try to figure out why he did what he did to us....because it truly was very nearly the end of us.
As far as affection goes, that's definitely still there on both sides. He's still being more blatantly sexual towards me...no not tearing up the sheets (puny remember...both of us), but he has been letting the guy out more that I knew was in him. His way of talking to me has changed....he no longer edits (unless our son is the room of course). He will say things to me that are more sexual, or fondle me in a more sexual manner....even make risque comments.
Personally, I'm glad it's not just gone to the hot n'heavy stuff constantly...because I would feel that was an act. Right now he needs to be building intimacy with me. Sure we'll ML when we feel like it, and so far we've managed 3x in a weeks time which I believe is a record for us, but right now I need to feel some real intimacy which has been lacking for so very long.
One observation for you all though. I've noticed that lately, since the A-Bomb dropped in the GEL household that when we do ML my H has absolutely no problem getting hard....non whatsoever, in fact it happens much quicker than it had in the past. I'm not sure what to attribute that to and I'm not going to spend much time trying to figure that out, doesn't really matter...but it's definitely a nice change.
We will be seeing our MC together in a couple of weeks...that session should be interesting. I feel like my H probably did open up to her quite a bit, because he feels safe with her....and noticed his eyes were quite red when he came home Wed night, so I'm pretty sure he cried at least once in her office....or on the way home. FWIW I do believe he is genuinely remorseful, does that excuse what he did...HECK NO.
One of the things I'm struggling with right now, well struggling may not be the correct work...more like it just feels wierd to me is this. I'm still SOOOOOO angry at the man, so very hurt still....but I still love him, I still want to touch him, to hold him, and to kiss him. The other day he was hugging me and I was hugging him back and I told him "it feels so wierd to want to hold you so close and beat you to death at the same time." He kind of looked at me puzzled for a second and then said "I deserve that."
I'm not doubting he said that or meant it... but yikes! I think he has a lot in common with my bf, namely wanting it but being scared of it, too.