HP, I'm not convinced that T is as strong as you make it out to be. I know from my own experience, depending on my current state of mind, I can be in a phase of "needing" the physical release of more than once a day, and there are other times I can go a whole month or more without even thinking about it much less MB'ing. I'm quite sure it isn't that my T is fluctuating, rather it is mental stuff going on that sets aside the physical desire. Even when the physical desire is there, there can be a formidable hump to get over to go through the trouble of initiating, to the point where it can be easier to either do nothing or MB rather than initiating ML with W. When there is a close emotional connection, that barrier to initiating is much lower and therefore easier to cross. When the emotional connection is not there, the barrier can look downright daunting, especially if there is a history of mostly getting shot down crossing the barrier. So I think the T provides a little bit of a physical itch, but in my experience it alone doesn't make a man become Tarzan. The itch isn't all that hard to ignore, especially if I make it through the first 4 or 5 days without another O. It is more like a visit to the beach on a warm day, where you can feel the attraction to go swimming, but that attraction can be overridden by other factors fairly easily. In my own sitch, I find that other factors play a much bigger part in whether I get horny or not (not going to say that the T doesn't push that horniness along once it is triggered though). The mind is still the biggest and most important sex organ.
I think in many of the LD cases, both F and M, there are often underlying issues with not feeling comfortable with initiating, ie acting on their urges. Even on the HD side of the relationship, you might find yourself less gung-ho on ML if your S initiated when you were not in the mood (I know now that I get that way), and if you are getting enough to satisfy your needs you may be inclined to take a raincheck.
OK, so I am rambling a bit. What I guess I'm trying to say is that I think a larger factor than the hormones, is the comfort level the LD has with initiating, and with his or her own sexuality. There are a ton of societal and FOO influences on how one perceives sex, including the madonna/whore thing, hangups with thinking sex is dirty, or that good girls don't or that it is unholy or whatnot. These influences, IMHO are much much stronger than the hormones in either gender. How many of you HD folks think sex is dirty or improper or goes against your religion or somehow degrades you? Nope, didn't think there were many of you. IMHO, the hormones give us a little push, but it is those other factors that really determine our drive, and it is the lack of getting needs met that cause us pain or cause people to seek getting the needs met outside of the R. Regardless of the need though, I think it all boils down to emotional needs, just manifested in different ways.
Very good reply GGB. We HDW's just get stuck in the "but he's a man" kind of thinking sometimes. We are very societally conditioned to believe that guys always want it or at least regularly do and the reality doesn't quite match that does it?
Cemar, "my wife and I have sex, but we never make love. She does not even grasp the concept" speaks volumes about you rather than about her. I can see why she'd be turned off by you. So do you ever just hold your W without making it about sex? Do you listen to her wants, needs, desires, dreams? Do you even know what makes her feel loved? I bet not.
Hmmm, Quite interesting GGB! I am embarrassed to say that my body reacts almost identically to yours. The first 4-5 days are the hardest; after that, I just sortof 'forget' about it and go on with life. I still miss it, of course, but after that initial physical freakout, it turns into more of an emotional longing.
Well folks I was never saying that it is only hormones; I was just questioning this:
Does a person who feels horny enough to masturbate several times per week *really* qualify for the LD label?
It seems to me, No.
To me, that person would be HD. The proper classification for that scenario is an HDH married to an HDW, but where the H chooses not to expend his sexual energies in the R, but rather outside of it.
I don't think you can say someone is LD when they have a regular sex life. You can only say that their sex life does not include their partner.
That was my original point, not whether emotions override our sex drives or stress or whatever.
But GGB, your input is invaluable to me. You sound, in that description, exactly like my H. I can't explain to you how reassuring it is to hear it from another living breathing red blooded male.
What I can't understand is why him having a hot-to-trot wife doesn't re-focus his thoughts back towards the sexual. I can see how an HDH who has stress/emotions/whatever in his life AND a wife who doesn't nurture that side of their R would naturally find himself not thinking about it. Or maybe he *is* refocused back towards the sexual but resents the fact that I'm always there, reminding, and does not act on it. (and by 'reminding' I'm of course not speaking about anything overt or even verbal, just acting and/or dressing sexy, things like that)
This thread really does not apply to my H, I'm just having lots of thoughts swirling in my head due to GEL's hubby's situation.
FWIW...I have come to the realization that my H isn't LD at all. He's simply been repressing that side from me. Talk about having a tough time wrapping my brain around that one right now.
I still don't think he's what I would call HD...he just fits somewhere in between. But he's definitely more sexual than he's been telling me. However, he's definitely not complaining about the activity over the weekend....in the past he'd have already been pushing me away.
It's going to be interesting to see where we're at this time next year.
Quote: I still don't think he's what I would call HD...he just fits somewhere in between.
Why do you say that?
You know, it's funny, I think the same thing about my H. And yet he can't go more than 3 days without sex without getting antsy for it. Most people would consider that HD, right.
Perhaps a more relevant discussion would be: What is HD?
I say that just from my experience at this point with him. He may turn out to be more HD than I believe right now....but at this point I don't really know, so I'm not going to say he is or isn't. It's probably safer right now for me to feel that he's somewhere in the middle.
I can verify that he's not LD, we all know that now....but his behavior right now doesn't scream HD to me either....at least not yet. What will come out with further IC and more time between us spent....I dunno. So far we've only had a few days go by with this behavior.
HP,
Hmm, or maybe your efforts are not quite right to him, either too over the top or not hitting on the right trigger or too ordinary or too 'out there' or maybe it seems like too big a hill to climb or whatever. Nobody can answer that other than him. Not only that, but I bet the answer is completely different on different days. Despite what Dr Laura says, I don't think we Men are quite so simple that all you need to do is blink your eyes and wiggle your a$$ to have us chasing you around the room. The only way you'll understand him is to get inside his head, and the only way to do that is to improve your intimate communication, which is where the WWME techniques can help. HP, I think you are already on that path of your communications becoming more intimate (I and don't mean explicit, I mean initimate as in getting to know each other's secret thoughts). The farther I get down the path, the more I am convinced that intimate communication is THE key to the marriage puzzle. If only there was a download cable that we could plug into our S's head....
"If only there was a download cable that we could plug into our S's"
Hmmm ... where would it plug in? Would it have to have male and female adapters. What's the throughput/bandwidth? Are we talking serial cable or Firewire? Does it require a buffer chip? How about onboard translation software? Can it be hacked to send commands instead of messages?
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Ya know, the only clue he has consistently given is that he is turned on by what he can't have. The thought that "it" is always available doesn't exactly make him salivate, know what I'm sayin.
I haven't figured out how to incorporate any hard to get stuff into my life, in an authentic way. If I just started acting hard to get, he'd laugh at me (yes I've tried it and yes this is what he did) and proceed with what he was doing. However, if I'm mad at him or something...some changeup in our routine that suggests that he truly doesn't have easy access to the bits, well, then he becomes focused on me.
Btw, we looked into ME in April but H said that he's not leaving the kids all weekend. Maybe in the fall.
