But don't you remember all those convos we had about your H and his religion... and given how deep his beliefs/convictions were, he was probably suppressing his natural body urges much like a priest must do?
So, I get what you are saying. I do. But my point is that there is/was an emotional component to him that was most definitely working against his natural male drive. He fought it.
Now... I get what you are saying about LDWs. I think there are real physical things happening to a woman to lower her drive, especially after childbirth (so she doesn't get pregnant again), there is PPD, lactation... jesus, we women have so many hormonal issues, it's a wonder that we EVER experience a true physical urge for sex.
But like you said... at some point on some thread... a woman's emotions will feed her sex drive... I think that's where it all starts with a woman. If something is out of whack with the emotions, something is probably out of whack with the sex (and vice-versa, barring true medical complications).
So... what was our original point? Oh. LDH and the emotional efforts he must make to avoid sex. Yes. Gotcha. Julie and Karen made profound remarks, in my mind. Do their H's feel overwhelmed by their emotional needs? Seems to be where the crux of their problems are... and that's emotional... which was my original point...?????
I'm with you. H and I ML just the other night and I am already horny. I was within 24 hours. Yes - right now I could match most any man's urges BUT at times in my life I had relatively few urges.
Corri,
Despite my recent profundity with respect to whether or not my H is truly LD - my money is on NOT truly LD, I have no idea WHY my H avoids sex. I have a million guesses - religion and sublimation is one, sub-clinical depression is another, madonna/whore complex is one, childlike attachment to solo sex is another, plain meanness (economy of deprivation), stress, unaddressed problems with me, issues with his Mom and/or Dad, issues with women in general, dislike of my looks, breath, body, sexual technique or whatever, questions about his own sexuality (not talking about hetero vs homo here) etc... The theories are practically endless. H will admit to and/or address exactly NONE of these with me. The only thing he will admit to is what Mr. HP always was famous for - being "tired", "overwhelmed" or stressed. That is not about me being overwhelmingly needy that is about him not wanting to look at the issues and taking the easy way out -solo sex (although I'm not even sure that this is as much of an issue as it has become on my thread since my "proof" is that he jokes about it).
Is my H LD? I don't think so. Is he in hiding from whatever the issues are absolutely. When I had to hide from the issues in my prior M I was pretty LD myself. When I project my reasons for past LDness on my H, I get pretty down on what kind of spouse I must be.
This may seem a bit off the subject but the list I just gave for my H's seeming LDness is all of a situational or psychological nature. Absolutely none of that can be solved without discloure and what a scary thing that must be.
So, Cemar, what if your wife's reasons for LDness look more like the list I gave above for my H and there is nothing wrong with how her body works. Does that change the way you see the issue?
Quote: But my point is that there is/was an emotional component to him that was most definitely working against his natural male drive. He fought it.
Yes there was definitely an emotional component--scrupulosity in his case.
But that's not really my point, either. My point is that, yeah, LD guys allegedly suppress their natural drives. Or do they?
Can a guy actually suppress the excessive force of testosterone working in their bodies? They were designed in such a way as to NOT to be able to go against it..there's that much of it floating around in their bodies. There isn't much that can work against that biological drive.
So I suppose my theory is that LD men don't ever really become LD--they just begin directing their drive elsewhere, inward usually.
LD women on the other hand truly seem to 'fit' the LD classification.
Their actions are congruous with their thoughts which are congruous with their body chemistry. It all fits together. There is a unity that, while it may be frustrating to their husbands, has to have a calming effect on the H's nonetheless.
The women constantly have this dual nature of their men to deal with--they can see the effects of testosterone working in them..most of our husbands are quite masculine..and they talk a good LD game but something's not matching up quite right.
Oh well, at this point, it's all theoretical for me. I can say that my H displays very little of his former behavior. I was just thinking out loud.
RE: Karen1 I just read a book called "Peace Between the Sheets" that recommends lovemaking with no orgasm because biology says that after lovemaking people (especially men) are no longer biologically motivated to "be nice" and that people tend to have a lot of post coital arguments. There is a long drawn out explanation of this in the book. I couldn't get into the philosphy but it was interesting.
ML w/o an "O", (guys not having a traditional "O") My gosh, do you want us guys to go nuts??????
To read more about not having an "O", Google (Tantra KAREZZA TECHNIQUES) or the Oneida, New York, 1848, ("male continence") by John Humphrey Noyes.
Kare1, (no longer biologically motivated to "be nice" )This happens to BB, not me. I have the O, she does not. She refuses to try to O and has done so for the past 25 years.
Interesting concept in "Peace Between the Sheets" I wondered if other people had this problem/situation. Someone wrote a book about it so their must be others experiencing these feelings.
It works in reverse for me. Ihis is one reason I don't push for more sex/ML. If we have sex/ML, I get what I want for the day but have to watch out sometimes for her grumpyness the day after.
I will have to agree with HP's position I also find my H to be much happier and more personable when we are having sex on a regular basis than when we aren't
HP, LD men? Me=sometimes when the financial pressures get high. Too much work to get BB interested, (past history)=Concerned about another pregnancy when the last one was a little tough / had enough kids. Me=HD at a different time of the day/evening than BB, this has been an on going problem, though BB denies it.
I have to agree with the statements, if you are not getting it enough, it is like a diet. All you think about are foods you like but can't have. If the LD ups the frequency/quality, the HD will be less dissatisfied and most of the frequency/quality issues will lessen.
Again it is not only about frequency, it is about quality and wanting to be wanted/appreciated/loved.
I see your point but I wonder if the allegedly LD man who is mb is doing it as much or more than the HD man? Some studies suggest that people having regular sex are more likely to mb than people having little sex. I just think that some LD people mb as an avoidant activity. So, it is the reasons for mb vs sex with spouse or it is the ratio of mb/sex that is at issue. It is not congruent with their "low drive" to be mb but I'll bet if you ask my H he would not describe himself as LD. So, just what is out of whack his self description, his behavior or my perceptions?
I DO think that you have identified one of the reasons why we HDW's really feel like freaks. I think few of us actually have H's who have medically based LD. We believe the drive is there. We KNOW he chooses to do something else with it - some us know what that something else is, some of us are just guessing. It is crazy making.
Yeah - I wasn't too wild about the no "o" thing either. The book goes so far as to describe how the R heads down hill every time one of the "slips" and has an "o". Considering that sometimes I "o" about 30 seconds into any kind of stimulation given the right atmosphere I have a hard time dealing with this kind of idea. Just figured I would throw that out there.
What the heck...that is the whole *point* of having sex, isn't it? (well not always but you all get what I mean..)
I think it's ludicrous to take a fairly simple and straightforward act, such as ML, and try to twist it to be about deprivation. And then to spin it as something that's good for the R is even more lunacy.
It was created with a dual purpose: to reproduce obviously, and to bring couples closer. To tinker with the formula and avoid orgasm is pointless!
I'll bet I could become brothers-in-arms, so to speak, with my H if we both starting avoiding food, too, but what pleasure we'd be missing out on in the process!
I can't help but retort "there's gotta be a better way" when I read about stuff like this. I'd rather get close to him and feel gooooooood in the process than get close to him and be sexually frustrated.
Interesting thread HP. Yes, men have the hormonal advantage, but in humans it's "mind over matter." The mind can suppress drive for all the reasons mentioned, no matter how much T is flowing through our spouses' veins. And while a woman's sexuality may be easier to suppress ( in a biologic sense), this is not health. And..it's easier to hide out as an LD woman in our society...so even though the men have to deal with " what is wrong with me" thoughts, women are receiving a disservice too with the societal message that it's okay to be LD.
Passion + monogamy...such a hard thing, such a head trip.
HP the Oneida Religious Community, New York, 1848, ("male continence") John Humphrey Noyes, used this method as a form of birth control, also so men and women would not be in exclusive relationships or treat someone special, in their Group Marrage commune. But I agree with you in the bringing couples closer together line of thought.
how the R heads down hill every time one of the partners "slips" and has an "o". Maybe if one person doeas not like sex that much or has trouble liking it and feels cheated out of not having an "O" when the OP has an "O" easily, might apply. Just speaking for my situation.
Karen1 on a previous post.
On an intilectual mode, please with draw that freak HDW comment. Although you say you do feel this way sometimes or some how, you also know that many people wish they had some of your HDness (women) and men wished their W's had more of what you have.
But I don't want to negate your feelings. Those are your feelings and they are not mine to say how you should feel. I do get the point that the situation is uncomfortable for you and creates questions that cause you to feel certain ways.
sometimes I "o" about 30 seconds into any kind of stimulation given the right atmosphere Lucky Mr K1 but sad for the R because somethings are missing for both of you. Just saying lots of guys would love this, or something similar (3 to 15 minuets instead of after an hour, even years, or never). I know that does not solve any of your problem. Whish I had better answers for you and the other HDW/LDH situations.
Wish I hade been on the forum back in 1975. Reading about HD/LD shure would have solved some timing problems BB and I had.
Quote: The mind can suppress drive for all the reasons mentioned, no matter how much T is flowing through our spouses' veins.
I suppose what my point is that, yes, they are suppressing their desire to *make love* but not to orgasm. They regularly mb, but don't come clean about this to their HDW's. To them they say things like "I just don't have a strong need for sex" etc etc.
I'm sure the LDW's do this too, but the fellas are doing it several times a week!!
How would the HDH's feel if they discovered their "I hate sex" wives were having a jolly good time by themselves and their anti-sex rhetoric only applied to sex with THEM.
My whole 'theory' which has more holes than swiss cheese, for sure, is that LD men are not un-horny, they just don't desire lovemaking with their wives. This is in direct contrast to the LDW's who truly aren't in the mood, most of the time.
Overall, I think there are more similarities with LDW's and LDH's (and HDW's and H's) but this is one glaring exception to me. That the guys are still having solo sex and lots of it. It's not an occasional thing..it's a regular part of their lives. They've just cut the wives completely out of it.
