Is there such a creature as a male with true low desire?
Or do we have scenarios where there are either emotional, physical, or relational issues that cause a loss of libido?
Since women have little testosterone, there is a logical reason why their libido fluctuates--it's not hormonally based to the extent that a man's is.
But men....they have a constant flood of T coursing thru their veins. In order to have an LD man, there has to be either something counteracting the T, or the man is directing his sexual urges away from his partner.
Are there men out there who truly don't want a lot of sex?
I say no.
I think that there might be men who don't want to engage in IC with their wives that often, but these same men are almost surely masturbating on a regular basis for release.
Is the term low desire husband a misnomer? Does this creature exist?
Or do we have normal drive guys who direct their urges away from their wives, for one reason or another? You've got: depression, ED, PE, psychological problems such as madonna/whore, porn addictions, relational things like wife is a shrew, etc etc.
I think the LDW exists, for sure. Women rely on outside sources, instead of hormones, for their sexual urges. When/if these outside sources wane, so does desire. Men's desire is regulated and constantly replenished by testosterone.
Sure you can say that the definition of LD and HD is simply that one partner is "more" and one "less" but again I'm not sure that's accurate when it concerns an LD man. I don't mean to imply that all LDH's are guilty of selfishly taking their desire from their wives--though some sure are--I am only saying that physically..biologically..there is no reason to believe that an LD male exists. Fix the 'cause' of the LDness and you've got an HD man again. Theoretically anyway.
I was thinking about this and wondering why SO many LDH's here on the board have normal to high testosterone and still have problems with their sexual desire. Their bodies are *pushing* them to have sex--what's the hold up?
How much energy is expended subverting this urge? (and the follow up question, WHY?!)
I suppose my real question is this: If a man has a normal level of T and thinks like an hd man and has urges like an hd man, can he really be classified as LD? Or is it more accurate to say that he's an HD guy who acts LD for some reason?
Quote: I think the LDW exists, for sure. Women rely on outside sources, instead of hormones, for their sexual urges. When/if these outside sources wane, so does desire. Men's desire is regulated and constantly replenished by testosterone.
I think everyone here woefully miscalculates the effect that emotions have on desire, and "how" exactly, emotions interact with the chemicals of one's body.
I, quite honestly, think that 'emotions' by and large, are misunderstood, misapplied, and in general, are pushed aside in favor of logic analysis and mental reasoning.
I think just because a man has higher testosterone levels does NOT mean that he is not susceptible to the effects of his emotions, of his stress levels, and a variety of other things that he may be dealing with at the time.
That does NOT mean I don't think there is something present which must be addressed. But it sounds to me like you are applying a very negative intent to the LDH, much as the HDH's apply to their LDWs.
That application of 'negative' intent, from either side, is what I see to be the crux of the problem.... or a least a major contributor to the overall problem.
All of the conditions that people have described as causing LDness in men, like for example "Stress" are supposed to normally CAUSE more desire. I know they do for me. Men are suipposed to be in their element while having sex. What I mean is that a man's self image is 50-90 % derived from sex. Maybe it is that LD men don't get their self image from sex, or maybe they get a negative self image from sex?
Quote: Women rely on outside sources, instead of hormones, for their sexual urges. When/if these outside sources wane, so does desire.
Then what causes HD women? We are told that issues will bring down a womens libido, and yet there are you HD women. So effectively, you HD ladies blow holes in the theory that relational issues bring a ladies libido down. Either that or HD women operate in a different environment.
Quote: I think just because a man has higher testosterone levels does NOT mean that he is not susceptible to the effects of his emotions, of his stress levels, and a variety of other things that he may be dealing with at the time.
That does NOT mean I don't think there is something present which must be addressed. But it sounds to me like you are applying a very negative intent to the LDH, much as the HDH's apply to their LDWs.
Yes I guess I am.
The difference that I see between LD women and LD men is that the men are still masturbating--quite regularly, in fact. So when the women say, "I'm just not interested in sex that much" there is a truth to what they say that is not there when you hear these words from an LDH.
Cemar, Yeah I knew that someone like me was blowing holes in my own 'theory'. I was just thinking out loud..whether the LD designation means "I don't have much desire" or "I expend that desire alone, instead of with a partner".
I've been mulling this one over quite a bit and really wondering whether my H is actually "LD." It occurs to me that as long as the LD isn't caused by a medical condition (severely low hormones in men or women, ed in men or dysparunea in women) then the LD is situational whether it is in a man or woman. It can be due to severe psychological issues from the past or present or more garden variety reasons for not having much sexual desire. The truth is that the LD is situational when it isn't medical and that in a different situation the person would feel their desire more readily.
I think the difference in LD men or women is in how men and women are wired. Women tend to be more relational so you are much less likely to find women doing lots of solitary sexual activities like viewing porn on the net. They may sublimate their sexual needs in other ways - collecting pets, doing lots of church activities, doing lots of Mom things, having many female friends etc... Sometimes, a little less often than men, they will have affairs.
Men who are situationally LD will have that biological need arise and work around the "situation" that makes them LD by mb through a variety of means or have an affair thereby negating the situation.
Cemar - how is it that there are HD women despite hormonal fluctuations etc...? Number one, the relational aspect has something to do with it. More important though is why is ANYONE HD (especially if their SO is LD and they aren't going to be getting as much as they want and they know it). I think the answer is similar to discussions of psychological resilience. Some people can go through horrible things and still be psychologically ok, others are permanently damages. Some people can have high stress lives but still be happy, others get depressed. Some people have more sexual resilience than others. Some people's sexuality is less "state dependent" than others. Some people take note of, enjoy, identify with, care about their sexuality more than others. I think that it is like personality differences. Some people are resilient with respect to their faith - others find their faith failing easily. The degree to which desire increases/decreases or stays fairly steady is just an individual difference.
HP: First let me say, thank you for bringing up this topic. I wonder this all the time about my "LDH". Our 10-year relationship has been him LD, me HD, although in the past three years, it has taken a turn for the worse.
So, my H says (after reading SSM), that he "just doesn't have the desire to have sex or be physical". YET, I have found girly mags hidden in his dresser drawer, porn movies he's rented when he thought I wasn't going to be home, pics on the computer AND pictures of my girlfriends from a bachlorette party in his dresser drawer. So, does he really not have a desire for sex? I think it means he does have a desire for sex. Maybe it's like you said, his sexual energy is directed to anything but me.
I think CeMar makes an interesting observation:
Quote: Maybe it is that LD men don't get their self-image from sex, or maybe they get a negative self-image from sex?
I don't think that our self-image is entirely based on one factor. I think that sex is only one factor in it. I think that our self-image is based on a culmination of: sex, relationships, job/achievement, children, family, etc. I think because we are here on this board, we focus on sex as being the main focus of our lives. Speaking for myself, although I have these issues with H being LD, it is not the only factor shaping my self-image. I could be a very insecure, depressed person all together because my H has no desire, doesn't touch me, etc... And although I DO feel insecure about that area of my life...I am a very confident, secure person in my parenting skills, my professional life and when around anyone BUT my H, I feel sexually confident and secure.
CeMar:
Quote: Men are supposed to be in their element while having sex.
Again, I think this is a stereotype that society has placed on men. I think that it is probably a lot more common that men are insecure about having sex. Mostly because of stereotypes like this. There seems to be a lot of pressure on men to "get some", compare equipment sizes, to perform great,etc...
So, does such a stereotype influence someone so much that their ENTIRE self-image is determined by only one thing (SEX)? I don’t' know, I still have to say no. I find it hard to believe.
Anyway, just my 2 cents. Thanks for making me realize my H's no desire excuse is a crock of you-know-what. Now to get to the real problem!
Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
Quote: More important though is why is ANYONE HD (especially if their SO is LD and they aren't going to be getting as much as they want and they know it).
Karen, Interesting question...I think that my HD, really wouldn't be HD at all, if we had a regualar sex life. Notice I didn't say normal, but regular, meaning that it is something that I can count on as a stable part of our relationship. I think that if we did ML more regularly, I wouldn't be obsessed with wanting it everday. I think we go to an opposite extreme when we are denied something. Just like dieting. You are told no snacks or sweets. What do you think about ALL THE TIME? Snack and sweets. IMO, I think it is the extreme behavior of the LD partner that pushes the other partmer to the HD side.
Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
Nicky, Great post! Thank you for responding to Cemar; I agree with everything you wrote.
Well, not to blow more holes in my already shaky 'theory' but my H did not mbate during our starvation times. Well, I'm sure he did but it was very infrequent. I think he has *some* LDness to his personality...and Corri there's no insult or negative connotation in that statement, just an observation. Coupled with his struggle with scrupulosity, it all but derailed his sex drive. How do I know that he wasn't jerking off every chance he got? Because he was mean. Really freakin mean. I could have charted how his personality took a downturn immediately after we had sex.
Last year, he went through some sort of introspection process where he was reliving that time of his life. I was not mentioning it at all, but he would bring it up spontaneously..say, "I can't believe I acted like that!" and apologize over and over.
This will come as no surprise to the HD guys here, but having regular sex softens him and makes him gentler and MUCH easier to live with. He was downright hateful for many years and me...well, I sure don't shrink away from a good battle. He hurt my feelings plenty but I matched him, angry zinger for angry zinger.
I guess I'm just getting disgusted with this whole LDH designation when there seems to be so few LD men who truly have a lower amount of sexual urges.
Interesting that you should say that. I also find my H to be much happier and more personable when we are having sex on a regular basis than when we aren't. I am likewise familiar with this dynamic in myself. In myself it is more like a nagging unhappiness that I can't shake when we aren't intimate.
For another perspective I just read a book called "Peace Between the Sheets" that recommends lovemaking with no orgasm because biology says that after lovemaking people (especially men) are no longer biologically motivated to "be nice" and that people tend to have a lot of post coital arguments. There is a long drawn out explanation of this in the book. I couldn't get into the philosphy but it was interesting.
