Ireland and beyond...Part 6 of the GH Saga

[grasshopper]

(Not sure why you apologized for being put out when she went for OM and then took her guilt out on you in the form of anger. But, you knew I'd say that.)

Yea, you and my C as well. I guess I was not apologizing for what I said, just how I said it. I never apologized for what I said even though she claims I was dead wrong about it. I am entitled to my own opinion. I just regretted reacting the way I did. I would have rather just asked her about it directly and let her answer, keeping my emotions to myself. I don't like to be that "affected" so openly by her. Oh well, some things just happen. I live and learn.

With respect to sex, it is never going to go anywhere if you take the tentative questioning approach. When the time seems right, make a strong, sexually assertive move --assertive, not coercive... IMPO, asking her about it is going to take you farther from that goal every time.

Well, I sorta did that on the "dancing" night and, well, um, she was passed out before it could go anywhere. Don't know if that meant it would have happened under slightly different circumstances or not.
I really struggle with this advice on the whole though. I KNOW it's what I need to do, but with SO much unknown in this thing now, I am really finding it hard to muster the, well, whatever it takes to just go for it and let things happen. That has ALWAYS been an issue in our marriage, mainly because she has two beliefs that make it difficult (not to mention my issues). First, she believes that the man ALWAYS initiates. I have no freaking clue why, but it is what it is. I think in our time together, she's initiated maybe twice...in 10 years!!! Second, she doesn't believe in just openly communicating when she is "in the mood". Now sure, I totally recognize I can help to create that "mood" but over the course of a marriage, it would be nice to share in the process that leads to ML.
I have been shut down so many times over the years that I guess I stopped really trying. I used to be really good at the initiation/romance/trying part and now (or at least when we still did those things), I just sit back and try to guess if she is or is not and even when I am right, I don't put too much effort into it.
After all that. Advice taken, but it may be awhile before that takes place.

I was somewhat concerned for you because of her comment about you having to be the one that moves out if it comes to that. This tells you that if it comes to D, she will want to keep the kids and the house. If you would want something else, you need to start keeping evidence for a court case should it be necessary. Your evidence might include your own diary, her cell phone logs, receipts, emails, pics, whatever you have.

Well, I should have been more specific about that part. She was just restating (and I misquoted her) her idea that NEITHER of us are moving out. She somehow has this idea that things are going to work out. She has no idea how, but they will. Her exact comment was more like "I'm not going anywhere and you're not either so if it comes to that, we'll have to sell the house and both move. I just never really thought about the boys living anywhere else but home."
It was another utterance of her mantra of "this is just complicated but sometime, somehow, I will fix it" stuff. Maybe she will, and maybe she won't but she can't fix me.
As for the legal stuff, I talked to a lawyer and he said that in Florida adultery does not really affect custody at all, and only sometimes affects alimony. In my case, and he has the details, he said he thought the affair would have little effect on the judgment. He said there was really no need to collect evidence and that my journal and testimony would be enough should the A become an issue.
I did the necessary legal research long ago to make sure I did what I needed to do to protect myself and my kids.

Like I said to my C and I'll say again here, I don't really know what's going on with her right now. I guess the most common feeling I have is that she will need to really come clean before she begins to work towards "us" again, not for my sake, but hers. I think the guilt will kill her in the end.

My C decidedly tried to get me to focus once again on me and that's what I am going to do right now. I got re-absorbed into the whole prospect of my M on this trip and I need to step back again and take personal stock. I promised myself I would do this now and I will.

GH

[grasshopper]

I read something on NM's thread that made me want to post something small that happened to me yesterday that was significant.
I was on my way home from my C session and I called my W. I always call (she wants me to, don't worry) to check and see if she needs anything from the store. She didn't answer her cell, or the home phone. I knew she was home with the boys, it was dinner time. So I left a message on her cell saying I was on my way home (do that a lot not instead of calling 6 times...lol) and to call me if she needed anything.
About 15 minutes later, she called from the home phone sounding either angry or rushed, or both.

W: What did you want, I saw you called.
M: Just checking to see if you needed anything.
W: No, is that all?
M: Yep, I'll see you soon. Is everything ok?
W: Yea, great, I'm just trying to manage 10 things in the kitchen right now. I'll see you when you get here. I assume you're on your way home for dinner. (the tone in her voice was a mix of sarcasm and anger).
M: (I didn't react to her tone, just responded to the words) Yes. I will be there in about 15. I'm sorry it's going rough for you there.
W: Ok. Bye.

Again, she was angry for some reason, probably because I was running late, the kids were bugging her and she was trying to cook. Maybe it had nothing to do with me, it didn't really matter, I was just not going to take it personally, which is HUGE for me. I did not say anything other than validating her feelings.
In the old days I would have, IMMEDIATLY upon hearing her tone, felt blamed and gotten defensive. The convo would have gone something like this, and I know because we did it about a thousand times:

W: What did you want, I saw you called.
M: (noticing her mood) Yes I did a couple times but you didn't answer. I was trying to let you know I was running late and see if you needed anything. Why, what's wrong.
W: Nothing. I'm just in the kitchen and the kids are bothering me. Why didn't you call earlier?
M: Like I said, I tried. You didn't answer. Why don't you just send the kids upstairs and I will take care of things when I get home.
W: No it's fine, I'll see you soon.
M: (feeling that she's blowing me off and being short I try harder to fix things because obviously she's not "fixed yet" or she would be happy) Ok, you know it's ok, just leave the cooking or whatever till I get home and I will finish or look after the kids while you do. Just take a break.
W: No, like I said, I can handle it.

After that it may have gone on, me trying to fix everything and getting more frustrated with my W for not letting me, and her getting more frustrated with what was going on at home AND me for not just accepting it, validating and getting home.

Also, last night when I got home, instead of expecting her to be in a foul mood, I expected nothing. I just walked in, gave HER a hug first, thanked her for cooking and THEN said hi to the kids. She was still a little frazzled but really, after a few minutes she was ok, and a little bit later, laughing at something the kids did. It was amazing. In the past this would have turned into a tense thing, with me on edge for the rest of the night and her resenting that.
Wow, what a little understanding will do.

GH

[PArob]

Right on!! thank you for posting that becuase I see WAY too much of myself in that second scenario and that is precisely the type of behavior that I am trying to eliminate. I tend to take the "rantings" way too personally and see them as accusatory instead of what they are. Excellent on your part.