Wow, I fill these things up fast. Well, There is too much to summarize so if you are interested in my history I will post links to all my previous threads...
That should provide many hours of reading and catch you up should you be glutton for punishment.
Right now, my R is centered around a 7 day trip to Ireland my W and I are going on together, without the kids. It will be the first such trip we have taken in over 8 years! Geez. I am hopeful, but not expectant, that the trip will give us opportunity to connect and at least progress in building our friendship. I also think there may be a possibility for more but I am not counting on it. My biggest struggle these days is whether to ask my W about the status of the A. She seems to have either pushed it way underground, or taken a few steps back from the OM. I don't know which and I feel that it might be helpful to know more about where we are in all this, or more importantly, where SHE thinks we are in this before the trip. I suppose my brain tells me that this is a road not to go down right now, especially since I have made a promise to myself to stop all R talk until after the trip. I guess I am looking for her to tell me the OM is out of the picture so I can be more at ease with her on the trip. On the other hand, me bringing this stuff back up may also backfire and either she could just get pissed at me for once again bringing this up, or tell me simply that the OM is still around. Both responses would take us back to the days where we were not talking and the R was not even on a friendship level. That would be disastrous and take away any chance, or at least diminish the chances that we would have to enjoy each other's company on the trip. The artist known as OT has lovingly posted to my thread lately and her most recent advice centered around being direct with our spouses. I am struggling with that, having been passive-aggressive for SO many years...and that was on good day...lol. In the end, I totally realize that no matter WHAT my W thinks, or WHAT she is or is not doing, I have the ability to make my own happiness a reality on this trip and it's that knowledge I am going to focus on. I want to be in a GREAT frame of mind for this trip. It has great personal significance to me as an opportunity to photograph this beautiful country and experience it's culture. I won't let my R situation ruin that for me. So with that as my goal, I am weighing my options carefully and will make the decision, likely not to talk to her until AFTER the trip, and stick to it.
I want to thank each and every one of you who keep up with my sitch and have given me such great support and advice along the way. You all have added so much to my life. I cannot thank you enough for you kindness, understanding and thoughtfulness. You're the best, and I am enriched daily by you.
Well finally dammit...waiting all am to post about your last thread.
To expand on what OT was talking about in being direct...is to also know how to pick your battles. Okay, you're over the bear now. Good. I think instead of jumping the gun when you "feel" something and immediately want to express yourself in being direct...step back, process those feelings first and then decide if it's something that you feel the need to be direct about. This gives you a chance to "cool down" before approaching things from an emotional side of you. Doing this should also help you regarding your Passive Aggresiveness. Instead of letting things, feelings and thoughts fester up inside until you burst, work them through. Not letting your emotions get the best of you, losing the "reaction" form of contact. I hope this makes sense.
It's quite clear that you and your W need to work on communication skills, I think most Ms do. But it's a matter of timing, using your DB skills and always picking your battles. But don't just make these your only forms of communication...learn to be communicative about other things too, positive things. Hey honey, blah blah, you look nice today...okay not necessarily that...but you know what I mean.
You know, I never really got up to speed on your sitch because when I came in here, and started reading some of your stuff, I just got the impression right off that your sitch has been around here for a long time, like many months. I never realized that this just started for you in Jan. Wow.
All I have to say is good luck on your Ireland trip -- hopefully there will be spark that does something wondrous for your M. If not, hopefully all will go well and at the very least be something that builds on your M and notches both of you can put in your belts for moving in the right direction.
And at the very least, you are going to Ireland! If I have any advice at all, just relax and enjoy it, stay loose, and hopefully she'll take notice.
Crow Jane, Crow Jane, come 'on, I wanna know,
how you love some man, but don't love me no mo'
My own 2 cents ... your R is going to be a topic at some point on your Ireland trip. In fact, though I know your W doesn't like to talk about such things, I feel confident that she will bring it up at some point. I just don't think you can be together that much in such a romantic setting and not have it come up.
Why should you talk her level of commitment to you before the trip when the trip may very well change her level of commitment?
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Well finally dammit...waiting all am to post about your last thread.
Sorry I took so long...hard to track down all those links!
To expand on what OT was talking about in being direct...is to also know how to pick your battles. Okay, you're over the bear now. Good.
Well, I am not over him necessarily, I am just beyond needing to DO something to him (well other than pushing him off the bed, into the side table and somehow landing UNDER the bed...lol). No, this was not a necessary battle. NOW, if he finds his way onto the plane...
Good. I think instead of jumping the gun when you "feel" something and immediately want to express yourself in being direct...step back, process those feelings first and then decide if it's something that you feel the need to be direct about. This gives you a chance to "cool down" before approaching things from an emotional side of you. Doing this should also help you regarding your Passive Aggresiveness. Instead of letting things, feelings and thoughts fester up inside until you burst, work them through. Not letting your emotions get the best of you, losing the "reaction" form of contact. I hope this makes sense.
Thank you for posting this. It gives me an opportunity to clarify what I said last. I was not advocating just REACTING in the moment and blurting out "direct" things that stem from feelings I had when confronted with a certain situation. Just as you said, and I SHOULD have said, I am really just talking about keeping the timing relevant. If my W does or says something at 6:00 on Tuesday that bothers me, or gets my emotions flowing, I DON'T wait until midnight Friday to address it. Processing and cooling down is one thing, but stewing and obsessing is quite another. I do too much of the later, which takes a LONG time to do properly. So, YES it makes perfect sense!
It's quite clear that you and your W need to work on communication skills, I think most Ms do. But it's a matter of timing, using your DB skills and always picking your battles. But don't just make these your only forms of communication...learn to be communicative about other things too, positive things. Hey honey, blah blah, you look nice today...okay not necessarily that...but you know what I mean.
Actually, I do know what you mean and I have been guilty of only communicating the negative about a lot of things in my life to my W. I am really conscious of making sure I tell her the good, bad and the ugly with more emphasis on the good. Also, I think my campaign of complimenting her in a mature way is working.
For the first time I can remember, my W and I stood in the kitchen and commented on each other's physical stuff in a positive light. To clarify, in the past one or both of us didn't like our bodies. Don't get me wrong, we are both reasonably fit and reasonably attractive (actually she is totally beautiful) but there are things we both didn't like about ourselves and when we would talk it was always her saying how she didn't like her legs or butt, or me saying my gut was a little big and I needed to work on my tone. Last night we both just expressed positive things about ourselves and each other. It was really refreshing. My W is in GREAT shape now (well, it helps to have a personal trainer...ouch) and I am in the best shape I've been in since the VERY early days of our R, long before the M. It was just nice to see her focusing on something positive and both of us keeping a usually negatively toned talk on an upbeat note.
You know, I never really got up to speed on your sitch because when I came in here, and started reading some of your stuff, I just got the impression right off that your sitch has been around here for a long time, like many months. I never realized that this just started for you in Jan. Wow.
Funny, it seems like it's been a lot longer than that to me too. Thanks for jumping in.
And at the very least, you are going to Ireland! If I have any advice at all, just relax and enjoy it, stay loose, and hopefully she'll take notice.
Sorry, I haven't read all of your threads, although I've been trying to keep up. I had a thought that maybe you're placing too much expectations on this one trip. Maybe you should look at it as a "first date" {beginner's mind} kind of thing with your W. Maybe before you go, if it hasn't been discussed already, you could ease her mind a little, {as well as yours} by stating to her that you aren't placing any expectations on this trip. Get it out front before you go rather than while you are there and potentially spoiling a good, relaxing time.
Are you an 'agenda' type person or spur of the moment? Maybe try the opposite on this trip. Unless of course it's a guided tour - I'm sorry if I'm not up to speed on the finer details. But, you still have the potential do 180's while you are there.
And, don't ask the status of the A. While enquiring minds want to know, DB advises against it. Act "as if"....maybe re-read the parts of DB significant to your sitch prior to your departure for a refresher course. Our egos and our pride cause us to do stupid things we deem as our right. DBing feels unnatural to most of us, but it makes so much sense. Don't ask, don't beg, act fun, friendly and happy go lucky - especially apt when in Ireland with the luck of the Irish and all that!!
This is a snip from something posted on Tom's thread supposedly from Michelle. I just wanted to preserve so I am re-posting it on mine!
Quote: Working on your marriage means making the decision to be there in spirit, not necessarily to be head over heels in love when you start, but to invest yourself fully.
Working on your marriage means giving of yourself completely, putting your spouse’s needs before your own- and vise versa. It means quitting the game of keeping score. It means forgiving and letting go. Working on your marriage means focusing on people’s strengths and downplaying their shortcomings. It means not expecting to have all or even the majority of your needs satisfied by one person. It means vowing to have a full and satisfying life of your own so that you don’t blame your spouse unfairly about your unhappiness. It means appreciating the little things and overlooking life’s annoyances. It means recognizing that no one, not even you or me, is perfect.
Did I mention wow? Not anything I haven't heard before but it's nice to have it all right there in a tidy little couple paragraphs. Thank you bowtech!
NM, thanks for the post. I think there is a lot of emphasis being placed on this trip for many reasons, not the least of which is it's our first vacation in almost a decade. We are both terribly excited. I suppose some of that carries over into my thoughts on it's impact on the R. Something that may be important to mention here is that for the longest time, when my W would get in moods where she seemed really unhappy about life or our M (not that she would really come out and say she was unhappy in the M) it would almost always go back to her not getting to travel abroad for so long. She dearly misses her London and second only to missing London is her missing traveling in general. Her family has always traveled the world and I always thought that IF we could somehow afford to, or make the time to travel, it would make her happier in general and some of our issues would be a little less prevalent. That was LONG before all this. So maybe that explains why I think there is so much potential in this trip for recharging and reconnecting. It's also why I mistrust the trip, or her motives for it because she would do just about anything to travel right now, including going with a man she isn't particularly interested in right now...but...I choose to focus on the positives!
Maybe you should look at it as a "first date" {beginner's mind} kind of thing with your W. Maybe before you go, if it hasn't been discussed already, you could ease her mind a little, {as well as yours} by stating to her that you aren't placing any expectations on this trip. Get it out front before you go rather than while you are there and potentially spoiling a good, relaxing time.
That is my plan, in other words than I have used to describe it, but close enough. Actually I have been thinking of this whole process as me starting over with the courtship of my W. I am starting to date her again. Of course that is a little different process when you live with the person already but wth! As for saying anything to her about my approach, I think I will just do it rather than say it. In the past I have been accused by her of talking too much and acting too little. 180 is in order for sure.
Are you an 'agenda' type person or spur of the moment? Maybe try the opposite on this trip. Unless of course it's a guided tour - I'm sorry if I'm not up to speed on the finer details. But, you still have the potential do 180's while you are there.
I guess my W perceives me as an agenda person. I'd like to think I am more flexible and spontaneous, but if I look at things from her perspective, I guess I am not. SO, when I suggested during the initial planning of this trip that we NOT book any hotels or make any plans past day 2 in Dublin, her jaw dropped. "You want to what?" she asked. "I want to just be free to rent a car and explore the country. I want to just do what we want, when we want to do it. That's my dream for this trip." I said. She replied "That really surprises me. You always need a plan before we do anything. Wow." So, the 180 is already in full motion for me on that note, and with much success I may add.
And, don't ask the status of the A. While enquiring minds want to know, DB advises against it. Act "as if"....maybe re-read the parts of DB significant to your sitch prior to your departure for a refresher course. Our egos and our pride cause us to do stupid things we deem as our right. DBing feels unnatural to most of us, but it makes so much sense. Don't ask, don't beg, act fun, friendly and happy go lucky - especially apt when in Ireland with the luck of the Irish and all that!!
Great suggestion, both the "don't bring it up" part and re-reading DB to brush up on the appropriate parts before I go. Will do. Also I am going to read/listen to Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus before the trip to maybe gain some much needed insight into male/female communication. I hope to do MUCH better on that front during this trip. I want SO much to just have fun, act friendly and just enjoy what will likely be the time of my life!
