We have talked about this before, it's H that has to accept and understand that it is his anger that drives this dynamic. And you know what it's not even the anger that's the problem, he may well be justified in his anger, but it's how that it's expressed that is the problem.
I was and sometimes still am that angry man. Always do you have my back on this one? It's very difficult to see in yourself, it take a conscious effort to keep it in check.
Tell me if this sounds familiar. H gets angry for whatever reason, at you, at the car that won't start, whatever - throws a fit, yells, breaks something. The storm passes and then apologizes for the behavior. A day, a week, a month goes by and boom another blow up.
I've been there, done that. Trust me he doesn't like this about himself, but often finds ways to justify his anger and behavior, especially when he's in the apology phase. I'm sure you often see the apologies as too little to late or insincere, because you know that this is going to happen again and again.
Now, who is harmed by all of this. You and especially the children are frightened and hurt. The children are learning that this is how to deal with their own anger. You blame him for bad behavior, he blames you for "driving him to it" "pushing his buttons" - R suffers. You are made to feel bad about yourself, you become angry. H becomes withdrawn and sullen, and on and on.
Yeah, it sucks. Now how to deal with it. Not as easy as identifying it.
Now, we may have talked about this before, but refresh my memory. Would you describe your H as controlling? Always - would your spouse use those words to describe you? I know mine would.
Controlling people hate to be controlled. By anyone or any situation, they want to orchestrate everything. When things don't fit into their neat little boxes, when things don't play out exactly as they envisioned them, the controller becomes anxious and strikes out with anger.
How am I doing so far?
Could your H feel controlled by your current situation, selling the house, changing jobs, moving to another state? For right now he is the family's only source of income. Could that be adding to the stress?
I know sometimes when I become overwhelmed, I shut down. Nothing gets accomplished. Bills, laundry, dirty dishes - everything piles up. And you know what? That fuels the fire and adds to the anxiety. Now I worry about the laundry too! Ultimately something snaps and I'm usually able to get back on track, and I'm sure your H will too.
But it's the cycle that he needs to break, you can't do it. It's like the substance abuser, they can't deal with the issue until they recognize it as a problem.
Really what is needed right now are survival techniques for you and the kids. I don't have those answers. I'm on the wrong side of the issue. What we really need here is some input from those that are married to a controlling, angry, SOB like me.
Thanks C4H. Your description is pretty accurate. H lashes out, then when he calms down he is all apologies and sweetness. Well, I am not falling for it this time. No how, no way. I am plain sick and tired of it. I am tired of the holes in the walls and doors, dents in everything, and now probably a broken screen door for the glass slider....not to mention things like the candle tipping and almost starting a fire. Enough is enough. I have to draw the line somewhere. I told him I did not except his apology and that I am setting my boundaries. Flew right over his head. I told him that this always has to be about him. IOW, when he has a problem, I have to handle it a certain way....so he can feel comfortable in sharing. When I have a problem, I have to just deal with what I get. I don't live on a one way street.
As you can tell I am disgusted, angry, disappointed and totally overwhelmed with the things I have to get done with both kids having been here all day.
He will admit he has an anger problem when he is in the apologetic stage. Then, it's a forgotten issue and god forbid I bring it back up. Then, I am "labeling" him again.
I don't know how to handle the situation any better then I did. I would not let my kids watch that and go through and think it's ok, so I told him he had to leave if he wanted to act that way. Obviously, he wanted to continue because he left rather then try to calm down. He will never change because he doesn't want to.
~SE
I'm moving on...at last I can see...life has been patiently waiting for me.
Me-32 WAH-35 DD-11 DS-4 H left 11-03 Piecing- 12/04 WAH again- 03/07 Married 12 years Divorce final May 15, 2007
He will never change because he doesn't want to. Yet ! Always - come on chime in here.
H doesn't recognize the problem, he thinks he does, he says he does, you want to believe he does, but .... he doesn't. Not yet.
Hell, it took my entire life to be turned upside down for me to begin to understand this in myself and I'm still struggling. I'm getting better, but not even close to where I want to be.
I agree with everything C4H says--and not just b/c he's a cool guy.
You know, both H and I had anger problems. He was angry with life, miserable and took it out on everything BUT me. With me, he pushed me away, emotionally, wanted to be alone in his misery. It got lonely and old, and I felt like a failure for not being able to help a depressed and angry person. Then I became one. I lashed out at him at everything, which just added to his misery. See the cycle. Yes, H definately sees me as controlling (read my thread) and too saw him as controlling, and he realizes that. Controlling does not mean you tell a person what to do, but rather that your moods set the tone of the day/family/life and you KNOW IT and USE IT. That's bad. If you're not happy, no one is. Both H and I were like that.
He woke up 1 year ago when we moved to a place with a MUCH better job for him, and I was still stuck in my old behaviors toward him, didn't see that he had changed. He, on the other hand, calmed down, was happy in life and expected me to be happy "hey, I'm much happier now, now we can ALL be happy..I can be a more engaged and loving H..." When he broke, trying everything for 1 year and finally withdrawing, I snapped out of my anger.
I'm still not perfect, and situations like today my emotions seep in....but I can see it now. I feel so badly b/c I now know how it makes him feel, I feel sad, I try to control my emotions. I still don't ever get angry like I used to.
So, I agree, your H does have some serious anger....getting physical with things is dangerous. He is threatening and intimidating. He will snap out of it, I think he can.
I don't know what you can do, though. For me, like C4H, it was seeing life tip over, and snapping out of it...I wasn't like that. For H, it was the same. Gaining control over life and being in a calm space to see the past clearly and want to change.
I believe he will get there...he's showing signs. It's slow at first, you let the light of truth in little by litle and then BANG, you realize what a jerk you were and change wholesale.
Maybe the move will help? What do you think makes him so angry? A certain stress in life? Money?
Always- Thanks again for stopping in. He said what made him so angry was that he felt useless to me. I can't help that he chooses not to help with the things that need to get done.
He called twice already to apologize. He had an attitude with me the whole time this last conversation, told me I was talking to him like a f'g child, etc. He promised he would not act that way again. Yeah, I said I've heard that now for 12 years. (with his cocky attitude) What do you want from me then? My reply was to figure it out himself after thinking about it. Didn't go over well.
The problem is, I see the old H creeping back in. The cocky, know-it-all, I'm better then anyone else attitude he had when we first bought the business and right before he stared his A. I told him this and that I didn't like it one bit. He said he'd fix the house up, let me take all the money and do what I want.........then hung up.
@sshole.
I don't think he is going to snap out of it. He hasn't the foggiest clue of his behavior. He knows it's wrong, he know's it's dangerous, he knows it scares the heck out of his kids...but he still does it regardless. Then, I am wrong for having told him what was wrong. Umm...YOU asked me what was wrong remember? Not like I was flying around on my broomsitck nagging at you. If you don't want to know or don't think you can handle it.........DON'T ASK!
I am so frustrated. I am thinking of placing an ad on craigslist for barter: I have H to trade..will consider anything you have......even a piece of chewing gum.
~SE
I'm moving on...at last I can see...life has been patiently waiting for me.
Me-32 WAH-35 DD-11 DS-4 H left 11-03 Piecing- 12/04 WAH again- 03/07 Married 12 years Divorce final May 15, 2007
Controlling does not mean you tell a person what to do, but rather that your moods set the tone of the day/family/life and you KNOW IT and USE IT. Oh Always, have you hit the nail on the head. I'm not happy things are not going my way so........ I'll be a sullen, miserable pri*k. If you don't like it, do what I want, make me happy. Dammit it's all about me, me, me.
I was going to respnd to your last post an I had one of those OMG moments. I mean it was something I should have known about you, but all of a sudden the light came on.
Tough one. I guess we (meaning the "angry" folk) all had different things that set us straight, made us snap. For C4H and myself, it was the threat of losing the M. Sad it had to go that far. For my H, it was a new job and environment, less financial stress, etc.
Of course, it's a multi-step process. 1) There is an incident that makes you snap out of it 2) you look back at your behavior and feel like you were kidnapped by aliens 3) You act completely different, try to be aware of your actions on others, calmer.
Seems like your H is still on #1, on and off. He's feeling pretty low in the self-esteem department, that's what H and I felt when we were in "angry" phases.
Hmmm, let's listen to him. He said that he feels you don't need him. Yet, when you ask him to do things, he doesn't do it. How do you say it...seems that you're a calmer person and you only speak up when you've hit your stress level (you admitted to being in a mood and then letting him know how he never helps)...maybe this made him feel that he always gets you angry, lets you down and is a failure.
If you know he won't help, try to plan ahead of time how to ask him to do certain things instead of hoping, again and again, that he'll somehow magically know to help. Make a list together...thank him...tell him what a help he is, all that stuff. A little positive reinforcement goes a long way.
You know. My H has an employee that seems similar to your H. Very hot-headed, can't see the other perspective, gets really bent out of shape over things, intimidates and damages relationships with his attitude. H and I talked about it, and the main needs for him are: respect, being needed, being listened to, feeling powerful by being needed, respected and listened to.
I think H's self-esteem is damaged a LOT...he realizes that with his A and such, and your independence, he's lost a lot of credibility, validity, and respect.
Are these the same needs for your H? How can you start pushing those buttons on him to get him to behave? Let's get creative.
Great post. For C4H and myself, it was the threat of losing the M. My M is lost, but I can look back on one Saturday, an incident with my son, now 11. An incident that today absolutly tears my heart out. I was such a jerk, I see his little face, tears streaming down his cheeks. I wish I could take that day back. I can't. But I can promise to never let that happen again in my children's lives. That was my step one moment, yes it took the failure of my M to make me recognize my issues with anger, but it was the memory of that day that made me never want to be that person again.
C4H
BTW - Thanks for the cool guy compliment - I know of a few who would disagree with you.
You're an OH SO cool guy. You've got lots of great thoughts and advice. Let me know if I need any help on my thread if you see the need for a reality check!!!
