Haven't posted yet, but been keeping up with your story when I have time.
I forgot the exact percentage, but it is Very High, like 85% of men to view porn. I'm way too LAZY today to post links....but there are sites that cite many of its dangers.
One being that it is like a drug that men will use as an escape rather than deal with issues....relationship & others too. Another is that being a drug, users want more and more. They spend more time in fantasyland than learning to deal with the real world. They can get to a place that their wife won't measure up.
Plus, it is downright degrading to women....and makes us objects!
Just because "everyone does it" means we should accept it? So if everyone decides to jump off a cliff I should too? Learn about it. Reasearch the studies. Size it up. See its dangers for both men and women. It is not a harmless pasttime!
Guys are visual! Porn turns them on! It doesn't mean that it is a good way to satisfy the craving.....statistics have shown that in the long run it hurts relationships.
I say........order some great lingerie and costumes, dance on a pole, light the candles, send the kids to G & G for an evening and use that 3 hours in a PRODUCTIVE way!
I feel that porn in moderation is fine for both men and woman. But the key word is moderation it is easy to become addicted to things. But just because you are 10lbs over weight and like food does not make you a food addict anymore then liking a glass of wine with dinner makes you a drunk. It is all about when the need for it overtakes your self control and moderation is thrown out the window it becomes problematic.
I myself would have to ask my H how he feels about porn and if he ever browses at it and from his response decide how problematic I found it. I have already faced this one awhile back. My H did not come clean and actually was acting morally superior to others on this issue when he him self was partaking of this activity himself. That was problematic to me not the porn. He is free to view it as long as the timing is not inappropriate. But he is not free to deny or condeem others for it IMO.
So with your attitude like Gels this may turn out to be a opening for good healthy change within your relationship. I wish you luck!
Thank you for your post. I appreciate hearing the other point of view, that it can be a harmful part of a realtionship. There have been so many people rolling their eyes and saying, all guys do it, what's the big deal. I feel like that's what I have to feel too. I will do a little research about it, thanks for the suggestion.
What can I say about the dressing up, dancing, candles, etc...I do make the effort to make our SL as exciting as possible.
Anyway, feeling a little poopy today, better end this post before I start to go off on a tangent....
Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
Thanks for your post. I hear what you are saying about moderation and self control. I know that he is looking at it everyday. Whether he MB's everyday too, I don't know. I haven't asked. I am torn between thinking he has an addiction and that "all guys do it, what's the big deal". My feeling is that he has no self control over it because while I was tracking him, he viewed it every chance he got. Before I got up, after I went to bed, while I was out at the store and the baby was napping, etc...it there was an opportunity for him to look at it, he did. I took the tracker off because it was driving me nuts to see how much he was looking. I became obsessed with checking it.
I know that at some point I need to ask him if he does look at it and see if he is honest about it. If he says that he doesn't look at it, well, I don't know what then.
Part of me feels like I am just sweeping things under the carpet, one weekend of great sex and all is healed. Things are going back to normal at our house...I hate to be a pessimist, but I am really afraid that last weekend was a fluke.
Okay, I am a downer today. I am going to stop here.
Thanks, Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
The way I see the porn issue is this....if YOUR needs sexually are going unmet, porn has no place in your R....unless you view it together. Even then you need to be wary that he's not concentrating on the porn to get off....instead he needs to focus on you.
Plus, it is downright degrading to women....and makes us objects!
I’ve heard this so many times I think I want to puke! In my opinion, because men are visual, it only stands to reason that we are turned on by looking at women. If we developed using smell for survival, we’d all greet each other by bending over and smelling each other’s ass. (Now there’s some visuals for ya Lou! Just think of all the variations on greeting we could have!) If men fantasized about liking a particular odor, women would say we were objectifying them in that way.
I think this objectifying statement comes from women, based on women’s values. I don’t know of any men that complain of other men objectifying women, or objectifying anything else. It is normal to us. But it is not normal to women. Women prefer to evaluate men on an emotional quotient, on how sensitive and empathic a man is. This is not normal for men.
If a man talks about how he experiences other men, based on these feelings, the other men could feel very uncomfortable about it. And could they say that discomfort is degrading to them, making them out to be nothing more than a pot of emotions, feelings, femininity, possibly even gay? You bet men could take offense to this treatment, especially if someone wrote a book about it. How “degrading” would it be to a tough marine to be judged only on his emotions when he works so hard at keeping in top physical condition, is an expert at hand to hand combat, has master survival training under the worst conditions… and all you want to talk about is my emotions?
I see the above statement as a typical feminist control tactic, trying to set the standard on which men are to be judged. My point is that men’s views should be used in conjunction with women’s views to set the standard for what is acceptable or not. I think recognition of a man’s innate tendency to visualize the world, including women, should be accepted. And I think women should be more comfortable with their bodies to not be bothered about what some man is thinking about them (barring lewdness, etc.)
Eh hem...Cobra, excuse me, may I share the soapbox for just a minute?
Perhaps what Nicegal meant was that she FEELS it is degrading to her (as a woman)...
Sorry, Nicegal, trying to help you out here. Although I do feel somewhat put off by the images of perfectly thin, gorgeous women in next to nothing, and who will do anything..I feel as equally put off by Victoria Secret commercials. I do not feel that it is anymore degrading to women than ripped men in just their nickers spralled out over the 12-months of a "Firefighter of the Month Calendar" is to men. There are sterotypes for both sexes, and I am sure most men feel degraded, put-down, inedequate, etc... over some of them.
Personally, I don't feel that H is wishing he had one of those women, what he looks at isn't the perfect women, it's the avg. "housewife" who posts her pic on the web. If anything, knowing that is what he looks at, is REASSURING to me that my imperfect body is attractive to him. That is not degrading to me. What IS degrading to me is that he used the computer/porn as a way to avoid an intimate sexual relationship with his wife.
Okay, Cobra, the box is all yours again. Thanks for sharing.
Nicky
"There are two types of people -- those who come into a room and say, 'Well, here I am,' and those who come in and say, 'Ah, there you are.'"
Frederick Collins
I'm so not surprised you said that it was a feminist control tactic LOL. Let me try to give you another perspective on it.
I'm aware men are visual...so are women believe it or not HOWEVER, looking back throughout marketing history, art, etc....you find women constantly portrayed in alluring manners...men not so much (unless of course it was homosexual in nature such as in greek/roman murals). Many times it's flattering oftentimes in modern days though...not so flattering. I don't think you'd find one woman that would object to a naked figurine of a woman as a "fertility" symbol....that's been done for eons. However, airbrushed, siliconed, and spread-eagle in a magazine....doesn't paint quite the same picture. Sure a man might find it visually stimulating....but a woman often thinks....Gee thanks! And (yes, I know you aren't supposed to start a sentence with "and")...you know, I don't think women would find it nearly so offensive....if the women in the magazines/ads/movies....looked like real women and not manufactured real life blow-up dolls. I can't tell you how much I'd just love to see a Victora's Secret commercial or catalog with "real" women in it.....instead of women that represent less that 5% of the female population.
BUT...Do you find many male strip clubs for women in just about all large cities? No, you don't. You might find a few in some of the very large cities....but you don't find them everywhere....they are few and far between. Most towns of any decent size...do cater that way to men. Kind of one-sided. Mens sexual egos are catered to....a woman's often isn't. It's as if society has accepted that it's perfectly fine to encourage a mans sexual appetite, but not a womans.
Are there pornographic publications directed at women that contain nude men? Yes, but very few. There are countless publications depicting women for men. Yet again, very heavily swayed.
Women in the town I live in have tried to open up a male strip club....they have been stopped for one reason or another (and I do mean always). Yet there are countless clubs for men. They have even managed to somehow survive in areas that aren't zoned for them.
Do you see a restaraunt called "Dicks"....no, but you do see "Hooters". Historically women have been portrayed as "objects". It's not a feminist control tactic for women to be offended by being portrayed in certain ways. I don't view it as judging men....more as being offended by how men are choosing to judge me. Yet again just a different side of the gender coin.
Cobra...I really wish you'd get off your feminist kick, I often don't feel like I can say anything to you without you somehow saying I'm being feminist. Just becaues a woman has a view different than yours on issues such as this doesn't make her a feminist....and it doesn't mean she's been influenced by feminists....sometimes we actually make our decisions based on our own true feelings about things
Of course you aren't going to view a woman being portrayed in a certain light as "objectifying"...as you've stated you are a man, it's what you are used to....it's what many men have been raised to view as normal. Is it wrong? I'm not one to say.....but how would you feel if your W constantly viewed naked men with hard on's (or whatever turned her on) and either compared them to you....or basically ignored you?
Regarding your examples on the scarcity of women oriented strip clubs, magazines, etc., I don’t think that has anything to do with men stopping those types of businesses from starting up, but rather the demand from women for those services is just not there. If there is sufficient demand, the business will come. And it will likely be led by profit hungry men. Even in your small town, I would be willing to bet that women were as much behind the drive to stop a male strip club as were the men. The one-sidedness of male to female oriented business is not due to some conspiracy, its just that not enough women want it.
Why aren’t there more romance and fantasy novels written for men, by men? Because men don’t a flip about them and won’t buy them, that’s all.
I often don't feel like I can say anything to you without you somehow saying I'm being feminist.
Let me ask you this… why should your hesitancy bother you? Are you feeling pressure from me (or other men), that any “feminist” comment you make will trigger a response? Do you feel like big brother is watching you?
Well, that is a lot how I feel, and I think other men feel the same too. It’s not so much that I am on an anti-feminism kick, but this is an issue in which I see double standards.
Just becaues a woman has a view different than yours on issues such as this doesn't make her a feminist....
Exactly, and just because a man likes to look at swimsuit models doesn’t mean he is objectifying women. It is women’s interpretation that this is what the men are doing. I see the problem as women being insecure about their bodies, so they impress upon us men that we should not like what we like. Instead we should like something else. Just because I like to look at swimsuit models doesn’t mean I expect my wife to look like one. But I see no harm in looking, or admitting that is an ideal which is attractive to me. Why should that affect how I feel about her?
To instead tell me that I should prefer to look at middle-aged, overweight, sagging women is only meant to address the insecurity of women who base their own self worth on their looks. This is their issue, not the man’s.
.....but how would you feel if your W constantly viewed naked men with hard on's (or whatever turned her on) and either compared them to you....or basically ignored you?
Personally, I could care less if she looked at something like Playgirl. In fact, if it got her aroused more, I’d subscribe to it for her. The second part of your statement is not in line with what I am talking about though. No where have I condoned men for comparing their wives to swimsuit models or ignoring them. Neither of these should be done, but that does not exclude men from looking at the pictures.
So you see, to me this is about women’s insecurity, but trying to make it the man’s responsibility. Sorry, I won’t own that one.
The way you describe your H's behavior does border on the side of problematic IMO. If it is being overdone. I would have kept the tracker and as I tried to allow myself/him to bring it on more in the bedroom monitered to see if his viewing pleasure decreased some.
You will need to speak to him at some point. Speak not lambast is the key. Don't approach it until you know you can keep your emotions in check. But dwelling and holding it is is going to make that harder.
You said things are going back to the norm. One weekend does not change the norm. It is just as much up to you to keep the flirting and sexy air charged as it is your H. Making this routine will be what changes the norm. Not one really good fkkk feast.
Sorry you are feeling icky today. Take care of yourself.
Oh and the pole dancing thing hmmm if I had one to dance on I could so see me doing that !
