LOL, yeah, that works out really well too. "can you please read back the transcript...."
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
OT's correct, and very key is her statement, "I'm not saying it is always the right time to say such things".
Such a not right time would be when trying to draw the WAS close again, in it's early stages, where most of you are at. There is a putting on a back burner of one's personal needs that are desired from the WAS at that stage, but hey, you're not going to get them met anyway at that point.
I'm not saying ignore you needs or feelings, just deal with them constructively (not by repressing, that not being the only option) in another way for that moment. The goal is to get your ex-lover to reconsider the relationship, if that's your goal; working on the relationship proper, which includes your needs, comes after.
As an aside, we don't need others to meet our needs. It's absolutely nice for it to be done in a R, but many people aren't in R's, and so, how do they go about it? And even in nice R's, not every need is met by a partner or met sufficiently, true? So it's good to first learn how to meet your own needs, take care of your own feelings, before expecting others to, just like you first have to learn to love yourself before you can love someone else.
Okay, so maybe I'm seeing the point here...obviously dealing with my needs in a constructive way is crucial at this time when she is actually giving us a fighting chance. Obviously I don't want to beat a dead horse about how I feel, etc., when she is giving our relationship some serious consideration.
So, to summarize, I need to back off, have patience and be the better option.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Hey, its Friday! Another weekend will soon be upon us DB'ers. The family will be traveling up to Easton, PA this weekend to visit the Crayola Crayon factory....pretty exciting for the girls and I have to admit, pretty exciting for me as well.
As far as the R, well, not much to really report that I haven't already. I'm still a bit disillusioned by everything at this point and question whether I am strong enough or patient enough to keep up the good fight. The long and short of it is, I've feel as though I've been told the right things, heard the right things, but haven't seen the right things. Maybe its a patience factor, but the point is, when my W tells me that she is committed to work things out, why is it that she will still keep contact with OM? That's my dilemma...okay, I understand its hard to give up these things...but I feel as though she should have enough respect for me to at least tell me that she isn't truly committed to working it out. There can't be reconciliation/mending without 100% committment. So, that's where things stand. She says one thing, does the other. I accept that. The question is, do I have enough to keep up?
I admire some of the members here who have such great tenacity and have been so faithful to their goals. GH in particular, you exemplify true DB skills in the face of such adversity and it really seems to paying off for you. I applaud your efforts and feel so positive for your sitch.
I, on the other hand, do not know if I am that strong. I struggle with this daily. I try to be the best person I can for my W and our family, but I'm still not "there." Its nice to hear her tell me how wonderful I am, but yet know that those are just words. If I truly were wonderful, then maybe I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Okay, sorry, this is a very negative post. Most of it is just venting really, but I am getting worn down. I'm still committed to keeping my goals in place and giving it a shot at least for another month before I reevaluate and take stock. We'll see where we are then.....
Hope everyone is having a good day...I'll check in on your sitches.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thank Rob. Sometimes I don't think I am doing that well at all but who knows. Time will tell.
As for YOU, there is a theory that THINGS and PEOPLE can't wear you down unless you let them. Hell, it may be just my theory but I swear I read that somewhere. Anyway, each time you get to the point where you think "wow, xxxx has really got me down" turn it around and say "I really let xxxx get me down." If you look at it from that perspective, you realize that you have control over how you react to things. Not to say that you WON'T react to them, just that you begin to understand that you made decisions along to way to be a willing participant in your "being down". Look, I am down a lot too. I vent here a LOT too. I lose my way a ton. I'm not even sure I am even on a path as much as in denial sometimes, but what I DO know is that whatever happens, I made the decision to do my part of it. Nobody or no situation is going to MAKE me do anything. Try to see things from a more powerful place and maybe you won't be dragged down as much. It helps me a little.
I'm sorry to hear that you're having a bad day; but really, GH is right. And if you admire him for being a great DBer, there's a good piece of advise for you He wasn't born that way, you know. From what I read, he started at the point where he was just as miserable as we all were. Therefore he learned it, and so can you. It's not a question WHETHER you are strong, otherwise what have you being doing here all the time, pretending? The question is whether you CHOOSE to stay as strong as you were. I know it's uncomfortable, just like it is for the body to learn a new movement, or worse to change a way to perform an old movement. I read a story about a tennis player where she described how hard it was for her to unlearn her serve that was far from perfect although fast, and learn to do it properly. SHe wrote how she observed her body struggling, resisting giving up the old tried way and learning the new; how it tried to show her that the new way doesn't work, the old way is certainly better, and that the body just can't do it. She said that slowly her body adapted, when it was clear that she was not giving up. SHe just gave it time to accept the new way so that it becomes natural. And then suddenly the new serve stopped being uncomfortable forced way to move, and became her natural effortless movement. See where I'm leaning towards? Your psyche is trying to convince you that no matter what you do and whatever you change, it's not working because it's not going to work. But it is. It's uncomfortable now because you have to unlearn you tried and true ways and learn something that's new and foreign.
Besides, try to be the best person you can be for YOURSELF. Not for your W, not for your family, but for yourself; and that's when you'll find yourself "there". I think.
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Thank you, both of you. Its the little pep talks like these that keep motivating through the hard times. It really does take a different perspective and I guess I'm trying each day to adopt that. Yes, it is a choice...and if I choose to try and make things better, I must learn to live through the hard times as well. GH, I really like your take on it, instead of focusing of "X has really got me down"...I need to look at it from the perspective that I let so and so get me down. It squarely places the responsibiltiy for my own well being in my hands.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Wow FD, that was really nice of you to say about me. Thank you. I was going to get philosophical on my thread but WTH...
Rob, I really like her example and I think it does apply to me. I think that it's because when I think back to 3 months ago, a year ago and beyond, I can't imagine I was any different than I am now. I can't remember a time when it didn't feel natural to these "DB" things. It's not until I remember WHERE I am now, with my M in shambles and W poised to leave me, that I realize that IF I was this way back then, I would not be desperately fighting for my M, or at least it's a lot less likely I would be. It's the classic "if I only knew then what I know now" syndrome. The fact is that I cannot even really remember what it was like to be so stupid, uncaring, inconsiderate, selfish, controlling and childish. I know I still feel all of those from time to time, and even act on them, but it's the realization that I was not being true to who I wanted to be, and thus untrue to those I professed to love, that turned me towards growth and away from stagnant self pity. It's the fact that they are feelings I have, and ways I act, NOT who I am anymore that makes all the difference. I AM who I choose to be not a victim of who everyone, especially my W, thinks I am. It's interesting to learn the difference between respecting other people's opinions and living by them.
I also have a confession of sorts to make. I use all kinds of tricks, including temporary denial, to make it through the day. Michelle calls it acting "as if". I call it denial. You call it whatever you need to, but next to detachment, it's the single most important thing I have gotten from DB/DR. It allows me to retain ownership of my mood/actions when I am facing uncertainty or adversity. The only difference between true denial and "as if" is that at NO time do I ever forget or deny that my situation exists, but I do deny it's ability to control me. I have been acting "as if" there was no OM for awhile now. When I am confronted with his presence, it still affects me for sure, but like a rubber ducky being pulled under water, I know I will eventually rise back to the surface. (unless of course he pokes little holes in me or holds me under, but you get the point).
I think it's helpful for me to know the place I always need to get back to is the "as if" place I have created for myself, and NOT the crappy, miserable place that we think is the ONLY place that exists anymore because of the current sitch. When adversity hits (OM calls, W goes "to a movie by herself", etc.) I get pissed, angry, sad, whatever, but then I start to make my way back to where I can act "as if" again by actively WANTING to be in that frame of mind and NOT wanting to be miserable. Of course it helps if this happens BEFORE I decide to react and say something I will regret, but this isn't always the case. Nobody's perfect in all this, especially me. It is also never really that easy.
Rob, I post all this because I know reading Frank's threads, and countless others' here, including YOURS, helped me as much for the advice as the example you all set for me. It's fine to read a book, but seeing capable, thoughtful people put it into such eloquent practice really drives the message home in a way ink on paper never could for me. I know you can do this stuff. It IS doable, but YOU have to do it. If you need to believe it's all in the name of fixing your M, then believe that (sorry DB) if it will make you commit totally to doing the right thing. I did that, and part of me honestly still does find motivation there but I know now that I was always doing it for me first, everyone else second. Rob, we all came here to fix our M. If not, we would have no use for a book called Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy. We would have bought "How to be a happy, single man again" or something like that. Do these things for whatever reason you see fit, but in the end, you WILL be doing them for you and it's just a side effect that all you love will benefit from it.
GH
P.S. Wholy crap. Please shoot me if I EVER do that again...geezus. One compliment and I think I am DB Ghandi or something...lol.
Thank you GH, your reply has been printed for future reference. Maybe its the "denial" that I need to work on, becuase as I have told you countless times, aside from the things I know....things really aren't all that bad. I need to gain contraol of my emotions and reactions because inevitably those are what get me to the place I am now. In some ways I have achieved that....I don't let every little thing get me down and have been able to act "as is" in certain circumstances.
In any event, I am in a much better place at this moment than I was this morning....partially, or mostly, thanks to the support I recieve here.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I'm a little late in chiming in on the activity planning. The link below may give you some ideas on activities that are enjoyable to both you and your wife.
