I know you and I aren't the same person, we see things differently. For me though, even though I've been horribly hurt, as have you....it's a decision to really work on my M and save it that has me doing what I am. Sometimes LFL, baby steps don't cut it, baby steps can be an excuse to not really do the work. I hear what you are saying. And I just want to clarify that when H and I decided to reconcile, we had some pretty hot sex! Not much different than you are describing now with your H. But again, just like you are now, I was driving the car. I was being aggressive because I wanted it to work and he was quite responsive because he wanted it to work. Some months have past now and I just see us getting back into old roles. Sure I could keep up the aggressive side of me and get the sex, but that is not fixing the problem. And boy have things proven themselves to be true. I haven't initiated once in weeks and guess what? We haven't had sex in weeks. He just has sucha hard time doing it and it frustrates me to the point that I don't want it either! So I wouldn't say I am taking baby steps. I want HIM to stop taking baby steps. But alas, I cannot control him.
That's absolutely the truth...you can't control him....anymore than I can control my H. Then again, I don't want to control him either, and I know you don't either.
I'm also fully cognizant of the fact that he and I will probably hit another rut when I get tired of what I'm doing now. However, for now....I'm trying to get it through his thick noggin that if he'll meet me halfway....he won't be disappointed.
Yes I do need a reminder. I want to be able to change my perception of this "attraction" problem. I don't want to dwell on the negative but I am sort of stuck on how to really see him as I WANT to see him, my H, my sexual partner, lover, etc
I remember when I lost my attraction for x the first time. complete LYBNILWY. I was soooo bored with her/us . To be blunt I was really tired of Fing her. I didnt want to hurt her and break up, but I really didnt want to continue on with things the way they were. Besides there was all this opportunity out there knocking on the door. So I had to make a decision. cut her loose, or stay.
Ok why didnt I want to stay. What about her changed. I was bored with her. she was predictable. etc. hmm none of those were her changing. she was a great person still. those were my perceptions changing. and if it happend with her it would happen with the next person and the next. Of course I had alot of education helping me realize this stuff. But I know you do too.
Well I wanted that feeling back. knew I couldnt be trusted if I couldnt avoid losing my attraction for her, AND in conjunction with the OP attraction trap. (which still almost got me years later) How to do it.
I just asked myself What DO I like about her. and the list was pretty darn long. So instead of looking at her as x the whole person, I would focus on just one attribute about her. Sometimes physical. sometimes not. ex. she is passionate about politics in the sense of crusading for human rights. Then I would just focus on that one thing for as long as it held my attention. untill I got bored with it. ex. her hands. not a joke. man I loved her hands. amazing. absolutely fantastic. and I would play with them and she 'helped' me out by getting manicures and using different colored polish (variety, something different) I would tell her I would like your nails like .... or the color to be ..... and she got the 'hint'. I could tell she liked it when I would just focus on one thing about her too. Did I repeat. of course. over and over. but it would be 'new' again after I had gone thru the list of things.
but you have kinda already figured this out.
Quote: I'm not feeling bad about us either though. I feel like I am being realistic about what we can achieve together. And it is a lot! We are great parents, best friends, good partners, but the SL is not what I would choose. I need to keep those positives in mind and continue to work on improving the SL.
your coming to acceptance while working for a future, and appreciation.
Turned everything I believed in on its head. I was lost for a while. I must have been telling myself through the years that the SL was not a big deal because he made up for it in so many other ways. Well all that flew out the window when he left. WTF?
Resentment LFL. Dont let it kill you. he left for reasons that you had a part in. Trust me thoses reasons become crystal clear to you after your SO is gone for a while and there is no fixing it. I know right now, and I will years from now what I did wrong that lead to my D and that I wasnt man enough to fix it. years from now I hope you are still M.
What if I give myself to him even more this time and he up and leaves? Maybe that is why I am feeling reluctant to lead in the bedroom. Be so intimate, raw, vulnerable
fear. yes its making you do the wrong thing.
But alas, I cannot control him. not alas. its a good thing. When he feels your acceptance and you drop your fear, good things will happen. He 'feels' something in regards to your opinion of the sex life. Very likely his assumption is wrong. He wont know this untill you show him.
Ok why didnt I want to stay. What about her changed. I was bored with her. she was predictable. etc. hmm none of those were her changing. she was a great person still. those were my perceptions changing. and if it happend with her it would happen with the next person and the next. Of course I had alot of education helping me realize this stuff. But I know you do too.
wow. That could have been written by my H. Guess most men do think alike And from what I have surmised, it sounds like your W was a little hotty. Yet, you still got "bored" with her Even though she was a "great person". So all of this happened before she decided to have the A, right? hmmm Ouch Yes, losing attraction is a a real R killer. But is it just sexual attraction or an overall level of attraction? I find my H interesting, love his sense of humor, have the same taste in foods, travel, music, etc I like to touch him, reach out to him, hug, hold his hand. But when the sexual desire part comes into play, it's almost like we go into acting mode or something. It's hard to explain. We can have great sex when we are both really into it. But most of the time, it doesn't seem...natural (?) I'm not sure what word is good here. You know how when you are with some people it just flows so easy into the sexual aspect of the R? We have NEVER had an easy flow. That seems to be the root of the problem. What is up with that? I love this man. He loves me. When people found out about the separation, most of them commented "but you guys were the perfect couple." Right. I just asked myself What DO I like about her. and the list was pretty darn long. So instead of looking at her as x the whole person, I would focus on just one attribute about her. That is a good idea. I am going to try this out. I think it will work to increase my overall attraction to H for sure. But the awkwardness is still going to be there I think. Always has. That's not something that we "lost." H and I had a serious conversation about this last night. Again, he stated he was worried I will have an A because of this issue and I stated I was worried he would leave again. So at least the cards are on the table. Our weaknesses are no longer being denied or brushed under the rug. The problem though is that we both sort of came to the conclusion that this is "us". This is how we are together and we love each other but the sexual side of the R is just always going to be a struggle. We both feel like we need to come to some Acceptance of that or we will make ourselves miserable all over again. I'm scared we won't be able to change our perceptions enough on this issue, but time will tell. When he feels your acceptance and you drop your fear, good things will happen. He 'feels' something in regards to your opinion of the sex life. Very likely his assumption is wrong. But his assumption is not wrong. As per our conversation, we put it all out on the table. The SL is not where we would want it to be but we agreed to work on acceptance of that fact. It may never get to great but maybe good enough. The other parts of our R make up for some of what is lacking in the bedroom but I can't sublimate all of my sexual desires. I wouldn't want to and shouldn't have to. But I can sometimes. Probably more than I do now. That is a concept I am trying to embrace at this point. We'll see how it goes.
There is only one reason I ask that question – it is because of the great pain I see you in, a pain I experienced years ago when I broke up with my girlfriend. I still regard that as the greatest mistake of my life and regret it to this day. I have no idea if I would be happier now had we stayed together. Maybe, maybe not.
But the thing I regret the most is that I could have done something to prevent that, I could have change that fate. I hated losing her, but my hurt and pride was too great to go back. I thought I was doing what was best. Move on. Find someone you can trust. Build on a better foundation. Well maybe she was the best foundation I was destined to run across. And judging a future with her based on what I experienced at the time was short sighted. Our relationship and breakup changed the both of us. Time apart to grow and learn from our mistakes changed us more.
You have the great advantage of knowing so much more about relationships than I ever did. Your assumption that you could never repair your relationship with your ex is false. Give the both of you time to heal, just as you are doing. But don’t close the door to a possible future with her. It may happen. It may not. But as long as you hold on to your pride, your righteousness, I know it will never happen. And then, ten years down the line, you may look back and ask yourself what the h*ll did I do?!
This is a hard thing to live with, what you’ve had to endure. The future will not necessarily be easier. You are a very confident person. Each of us has our lessons we must learn in this lifetime. Maybe yours is to learn a little humility (ok, mine too). If so, you may never find another women with whom you will feel as close a bond. But by then it will be too late. She will be married, with a family. And you will realize your mistake and the realization of your lesson. Don’t seal your fate to taking this path. Leave the door open to avoid it. Take advantage of your youth and the time you still have. If you two are meant to be together, it will happen. But you have the power to override that. For now, I don’t see any reason to do so. Look at GEL. You both were on the very same road and came to the very same fork. You went one way and she went the other.
All this is why I feel compelled to speak to you, whether you agree or not. I made my mistake. Maybe I can prevent someone else from doing so too. Just remember that in the end, we have to live with all this relationship mumbo jumbo that we throw around on this board. The bottom line is HOW DO WE FEEL. If you are in pain what good is all this stuff, no matter how much sense it makes? Go back out to the desert, smoke a little peyote and listen to your heart. It is talking to you. You know it. That is why you built up the dam and why you fear the dynamite.
Great post Cobra. I second what you said to BF. Don't be so rigid. Keep the door open. You might be surprised about how you feel if you at least have the option of her in your life BF. You are obviously in pain now so Cobra is right. It is about how you FEEL, or what is all the R talk about? You know I am trying to change my perceptions about my own M, but if I don't FEEL a difference, feel some sense of peace, acceptance, I will never get to a place of contentment. Or worse, I will still be in pain, carrying around resentment and hurt. Just because you push someone out of your life does not mean the pain goes away with them. You are so much smarter now about your mistakes in the M that maybe it could really work if you tried again. She is obviously having a hard time herself (anxiety attacks on the phone). She is still reaching out to let you know she is there and in pain herself. It sounds like the two of you have tons of unfinished emotions to deal with, regarding the M. Lots of people get back together BF, even after the big D. Never say never is all. Thinking of you and hope you are ok. LFL
--------------------------------------------- Blackfoot says: I never forgot it, I just couldnt do it after she failed my test Blackfoot says: first I never thought that was a option. Arrogant Blackfoot says: then Jealousy and seeing ALLL my dreams plans go poff killed me Stigmata says: and you saw cobra and lfl posts on your thread. Blackfoot says: I never considered that I wouldn be able to handle my emotions or if she left me Blackfoot says: nod Stigmata says: tough ones. Blackfoot says: I cant reply Blackfoot says: my comments are ascerbic and staccato Stigmata says: i was thinking this a.m about how things started falling together with your need to set up testing damned the consequences. Stigmata says: from your posts and IRL stuff etc. Stigmata says: makes sense your interst in nitro and chemistry and poly sci...with playing and testing landica as a prosecutor if given the chance Stigmata says: and your O2 mix. And your crumbling granite observation. You already know the results of everything in these sitches b/c you're 15 steps ahead.... Stigmata says: but you follow through in order ot push the limit and prove your theories. Blackfoot says: re lfl and cobra. I dont believe in divorce. I wont do remarriage. ever. Hence I have to go cold turkey to my personal opiate addiction. x. Stigmata says: knowing full well it could end in total disaster or death. Blackfoot says: yes I dont like theories Blackfoot says: I want imperical evedince Stigmata says: wrong word. Stigmata says: i didn't mean theory. I mean the whole set up of the experiment. The empirical ahhh "the control" in the study. Blackfoot says: ahh. Stigmata says: so it's not a theory. it's you building (after all you are a builder/craftsman) an immensely well studied/thought out experiment. Stigmata says: you like constructing things rom scratch and playing with the edge...like with the fascination with nitro. Blackfoot says: funny Stigmata says: knowing you could blow your ass to kingdom come Blackfoot says: my workmates think I am crazy. Blackfoot says: they think I am safe at work and trust me, call me superman, but they think I am nuts with my personal safety Stigmata says: ah, yes and you know what that alludes to don't you? Blackfoot says: one asked me yesterday, why do you always have to push the envelope Stigmata says: oh fcuk another exact phrase from my hournal "why do you always have to push the envelope, Stigmata?" Blackfoot says: thought about it and said I dont know. Im practicing for the real thing -the moment- when I will have to be 'ON'. Stigmata says: when I almost flipped my car at 100 plus Blackfoot says: ah yes Blackfoot says: I wrecked my nissan altima at 140 back in ........ 92? Blackfoot says: 93? Stigmata says: but back to this safety and trust yet personally...wreckless.... Stigmata says: ouch Blackfoot says: yes everyone trusts me with there kids, their life, etc Stigmata says: where i ws going with this. Stigmata says: what this alludes to. an exact application. Blackfoot says: Im all ears Stigmata says: and ties in with you sharing your fuzzy dreams with people who have no business being involved. Stigmata says: you created a perfect fuzzy safe almost enabling einvironment for OM. At the risk of putting you and x in total [censored] disaster danger. Blackfoot says: ah but I am haveing such a great time. such a great life is ahead of me. I want to share it, and bring others with me Blackfoot says: people with talents that complement mine or push me Blackfoot says: I always surrond myself with alpah males Stigmata says: others=safety; you and your R-=in jeopardy Blackfoot says: hence my letting x go Stigmata says: like your workers trust you but you are your own worst enemy as to your own safety. Blackfoot says: she is half of me hence subject to the dangers that inherently WILL be in my life. Stigmata says: exactly Blackfoot says: I cant do that to her. shouldnt do that to any woman Blackfoot says: ok I am going to post to cobra now Stigmata says: you both were one. can't kill one siamese twin without offing the other. Blackfoot says: with basically this stuff Blackfoot says: nod Blackfoot says: I broke her Stigmata says: go for it. Blackfoot says: and broke myself Blackfoot says: in the process. Stigmata says: of course. as youu are part of it Stigmata says: you had a vested interest this time. usually you don't care of your self preservation. Stigmata says: but this is diferent. this is something <hugs> you actually cherished. Blackfoot says: no I didnt Blackfoot says: I felt it inside Stigmata says: well cherished I mean, "loved" Blackfoot says: but I did in fact NOT cherish it Blackfoot says: or she would still be here. Blackfoot says: maybe Ill just post this convo to the thread Blackfoot says: with your permission of course Stigmata says: and you didn't break her. she was just too weak to pass your "control" experiment Stigmata says: she broke herself. deep down she had the choice. she knew what she was doing was wrong. Blackfoot says: attraction is not a choice Blackfoot says: neither is the feeling that your SO doesnt care I am sure. Stigmata says: no but loyalty and trust is. Blackfoot says: ahhh loyalty. Blackfoot says: the only thing my mother ever said to me about the whole thing was, " Blackfoot you are loyal to your death. can you forgive her." Stigmata says: and you were loyal to OM. all you have to do is think if the roles were turned and OM and hi x included you in everything. Stigmata says: i highly doubt you would go there with his W. Blackfoot says: yes. I do forgive. when she is gone. I forgive her. when she proves that I was a terrible H, I dont blame her for leaving. when she comes back, becasue I 'attract her' or when I make no changes, then its impossible for me to forgive the abuse. Blackfoot says: no. never. i have had that opportunity more then once. Stigmata says: im sure Stigmata says: and that' what scares me off my x. i forgive her for a lot; i see where i was weak. but if she were to come back I will remember her abuse and be pissed. Blackfoot says: I dont abuse when I quit a R. Its one reason I know I am not narcisstic. Stigmata says: yeah, every other person in my life wanted me to punish x; but my R was effectively over. I saw no gain in that Stigmata says: which is why i have to give back this ring as well. It once had real feelings attached to it. And I can't have it as a reminder. Blackfoot says: nod Blackfoot says: few more days till our anniversary Stigmata says: another wave. Blackfoot says: yeah Blackfoot says: Im thinking of going to where we got married and having dinner. Blackfoot says: and a bottle of champagne. Stigmata says: yeah if it will help. Blackfoot says: it just came to me today on the way home Blackfoot says: from work Stigmata says: well as corny as it sounds, they always say to end a story at the same setting as it begins to sort of encapsulate it all
---------------------------------------------- HP. I broke her. understand?
I remember when I first decided to start posting here, I thought maybe I can give guys a different perspective on attraction/being nice.
The longer I am here the more clearly I see my mistakes and things I need to work on because I place myself in the H's shoes and see how my x reacted just like the ladies do here to my need for cave time, indifference, taking for granted, and in General just being a Man.
So thank you everyone and most specifically the ladies for chronicalling your stories, and giving me big chunks of humble pie for me to stuff myself with.
I have much appreciation for the mirror of this BB though, and will try not to ignore.
RE: Cobra Cobra I am an A$$hole with a Capital A. im human and my emotions get me down, run me around, heck I need my cave time on occasion. But because I have some knowledge of R's and some skills, I cannot let myself off the hook. So I am going to be kind and not subject her to me anymore. Comprende? In addition to that I clearly said during Reconcil 'contact OM again. DONE'. She made her choice. We have to live with it.
The withdrawals are hard core for both of us. but she did do what was best for her. and I respect that. gonna help us both out and stay the course of cold turkey towards our Individual recoveriers. Cobra. You are right. I have a lot of emotion for her. but if I loved her I wouldnt have made her feel this.
the following is copy and pasted from a email. x: " I don't think you have any clue the effect you still have on me. I tear out my heart every time I see you. (dont know what she is talking about. Pictures maybe?) I can't imagine that being with somebody that makes you wail at yourself to numb the pain insides is good for you. Everday I lay in the bottom of my shower and cry......"
She has not figured her sh!t out/ as evidenced by the anxiety attacks/victim mentallity/come save me attempt to motivate me. I have not figured my sh!t out because pretty much nothing in my life has changed. I work more, sleep less, race my MC, drink on Fridays.
P.S. Ladies thanks for the kind comments. It wasnt V day that got me down. Its after the interacion with F's that x haunts me. Its not supposed to work like that. Currently im swamped with work. even though I dont do, nor will do one night stands, I am upon much introspection, A player as LFL said. Play with my careers, play with my finances (I am buying a house in this bubble of CA, gambling almost all on another rise. No OG Ill never do interest only unless I am the lender.) play with my life. This general state of being/attitude is what broke x.
Ill not ask any woman to deal with that again, unless or untill that changes about myself. I have no need to change it, as there is only me to worry about. I did change it quite a bit once in many ways. It leaks out. The efforts were not enough/or appreciated.
Anyways. very busy. be out of state at end of month. Hope everyone takes care, keep having FUN with your SO. Gonna go back to cave for a bit.
